Teach me how to drive up hill or get more power

[015point9]

Rookie post even though we've own this thing since 2005.  Often herd there are no dumb questions, well here is one    Our Trailer and stuff in bed of pick up is about 12,000 pds loaded.  2001 truck is stock with 47re with a 4:10 rear end.  When going up long mountain grades, I make it point to not go over 1150-1200 on my pyro.  On long upgrades I usually end up falling in line with the big trucks and just chug up to the top about the same speed.  But not unusual to be passed by other people pulling about the same weight, sometimes like I'm standing still.  I understand newer equipment has bigger horsepower.  I don't care if I'm not the first one to the top of hill or not. But wonder where some guys, some in 2^nd gens get their power from?   I do admit getting a good run at bottom of 65 0r 70mph hill helps a bit. I usually have O/D  on at start of hill and then take it out of O/D as speed and rpm starts to fall off.  I’ve tried the “drive with O/D off when pulling weight”.  Sure get tired of the noise by the end of day, running 2100 or 2200 rpm all day long. For MPG folks…We can get around 12 mpg with O/D on and with O/D off at 2100 or 2200 all day long MPG goes down to about 9. Not that I worry about MPG that much, but sure do hate the noise all day long.

 

Might seem laughable to some…I’m a retired truck driver.  Was a lot easier going up long upgrades in big trucks with a manual.  Just find a hole to keep near top of power curve, drop a hole if rpm’s falling off to much.

 

So I’m wondering if I shouldn’t push it a bit harder?

Or maybe I should ask… How do you tackle mountain grades or what other power do I need.

Edited February 1, 2017 by 015point9

[Dieselfuture]

That's a good one, considering you have an auto and if it isn't built you don't really want to add HP. Hopefully some one has better news, otherwise you're pretty much doing it the right way. Maybe you'll be ok with some rv275, may just give you enough power to be happy and not damage the tranny.

[Me78569]

12k # and 235 hp don't mean power to pull hills, all you can do is gear down and let it sit at peak torque.

 

Unless you want to dump money on a trans I would also advise against more power.   A good TC and VB go a long way however.

 

really no way to go up faster unless you add some power.  Even a small tuner would make a big difference.  

[01cummins4ever]

I am in the same situation as you @015point9 I gross about 19K with truck 5 vr. and boat together. and with running stock power I just drive by gauges, nothing much you can do except take your time, and don't push the temps beyond the limits. I think in the near future some performance mods or going to be necessary since I am going to be increasing the payload a little. injectors and a tuner, and seriously thinking about an Exaust brake,( long overdue,) but with the 47re  you can only do so much and it's not the uphill but the downhill that's torture on the brakes. 

 

Thier is is a few passes around here and down in southern Arizona that I am at about 25 mph when I hit the crest but even with stock power I'm able to keep the temps and tach within thier limits. 

 

 

[dave110]

I was also in this situation once and believe me, a Quad XZT+, Edge easy, or Power Puck will make a world of difference for you. Like mentioned above though, you will need at least a billet converter and a valve body or shift kit to go with it. The stock converter will slip and a billet will slip without a modified valve body. Been a while since I bought mine but I think a Revmax TC and VB can be had for under $1000. Very worthwhile upgrade.

[Mopar1973Man]

I can say transmission wise the 47RE, NV4500 and NV5600 are the same for the top 2 gears for the most part. Transmission wise for gears there is nothing different really. Being your running 4.10 gear in the rear axle you want to land at 2,000 to 2,100 RPM when you're pulling your grades. If the pyrometer is rising above your max then gear down and land again in the same 2,000 to 2,100 RPM range again.

 

As for myself I'm just a bit over stock for mods but producing a good solid 400/1000 at the flywheel. Pulling my RV or utility trailer over grades is no big deal at all. I might hit my EGT high point but typically I can climb 7% grades at 53-55 MPH typically without many problems still holding 4th gear (1:1 ratio NV4500) which is the same as 3rd gear (1:1 ratio  47RE). Now keep in mind I'm still running 3" stock exhaust, stock intake, and no cold air intake either. 

 

Look at my signature links for my mods...

 

Last fall's big haul of hay. This is 10,000 pounds of hay excluding the trailer weight.

 

Edited February 1, 2017 by Mopar1973Man

[Cowboy]

In stock form, you really don't have to worry about EGT's a whole lot on a healthy system.  Cummins gave out the 1250°F number, first we know that there is padding there, second, that's only a problem at low RPM's when there isn't much swirl.  At high RPM, not a whole lot of heat actually gets to the pistons.  If you're smoke free, I wouldn't be worried about 1300°F EGT's if RPM's are above 1800-2000 RPM.  Smoke means prolonged burn, which is more heat on the pistons.  If you're wanting to run cooler for that warm fuzzy feeling, upping the boost a little, maybe 30 psi should help.

 

Secondly, the 47RE has stupid high OD which is a PITA to tow with, luckily you have 4.10's otherwise it would be miserable.  When you're towing with an auto, make sure the TC stays locked.  If you're wanting to put as much power down as possible to maintain speed, gear down to get the engine up to peak HP (~2500 RPM), if this isn't enough power, it will then lug down into peak torque, without having to down shift which causes you to loose speed.  If you can't make it up the hill in 3rd locked, then things get iffy.  The TC unlocks which makes copious amounts of heat, and is super inefficient.  You can change your gearing slightly by changing your tire size.

 

If you've got 2nd gens flying past you with similar weight, it's likely they're not stock, and quite possible that they've got a manual transmission.  Automatic transmissions have a considerable amount of parasitic drain from hydraulic pumping losses. 

 

What is really ugly is when you're in a 6-speed manual, and can't maintain speed in 2nd... lol

 

Pictures!

47RE with 4.10 gearing vs NV4500 with 3.54 gearing.

 

 

Hualing!

 

 

 

 

Edited February 1, 2017 by Cowboy

[CTcummins24V]

As stated, a small performance box and small injectors make a huge difference! I ran 60hp injectors and an edge EZ and it was night and day over stock pulling and riding empty. But, you can't do that until you upgrade the torque converter and valve body. 

[IBMobile]

The truck, 5th wheel and boat is15k lb and with the mods you see in my signature there is no problem going up an 8 mile 6% grade at 55-60 MPH.  I lock out O/D and lock up the torque converter with the mystery switch, engage the cruise control sit back and let the truck do its thing.  The mystery switch locking up the converter and 3ed gear is good for helping to control down hill speed too like on the Sherwin grad,  395 south of Mammoth Mountain CA.

[KATOOM]

I think you've gotten some really good responses so far.....  The only thing you can do without upgrading anything is to simply make sure the torque converter is locked before the pull AND remains locked throughout the entire pull.  If this is not happening then the heat generated with quickly push the fluid temperatures into dangerous levels.  So going slow is perfectly fine as long as you're getting there.....

 

If you want to spend some money then the least you can do to the tranny is a new valve body and lower stall torque converter.  Other than that, you kinda have to spend some capital and look for a built one.  That said, about $5000 will get you a transmission you'll never have to talk about again.

 

As for power, yes there are easy and reasonably cheap ways to keep up with everyone passing you on the highway.  I only have an EZ and RV275's but can tow my 14k 5th wheel up hills at legal speeds.  Well until someone gets in my way and force me to need 3rd gear.....

[Mopar1973Man]

8 hours ago, KATOOM said:

I only have an EZ and RV275's but can tow my 14k 5th wheel up hills at legal speeds.

 

I agree with that... Just small upgrades like mention above will make a huge improvement in towing power without killing the transmission quickly. Don't get me wrong but the 47Re transmission is the weakest link in the truck so that will have to be upgraded even if you don't add power.

 

8 hours ago, KATOOM said:

If you want to spend some money then the least you can do to the tranny is a new valve body and lower stall torque converter

 

 

This will be enough to cover the mild upgrade above. 

 

8 hours ago, KATOOM said:

Well until someone gets in my way and force me to need 3rd gear.....

 

LOL. I know what you mean. 

[Cowboy]

Here's a good upgrade list for the automatics. http://www.cumminsforum.com/forum/94-98-drivetrain-except-engine/452157-proper-upgrade-list-transmission.html

 

Auto Upgrade list

$700 for the TC

$160 for the billet parts

$100 for the Shift kit.

Total = $960

 

24 Valve upgrade list.

$500 for gauges

$430 for the edge EZ

$420 for RV275's

$20 for boost controller

Total - $1370

   

Grand Total of just $2330!

[KATOOM]

Noticed you left out the fuel pump, so add another $400+ on there.

[Cowboy]

He's already got one, unless you're referring to the VP. 

 

Edited February 3, 2017 by Cowboy

[KATOOM]

Oops.....  Didnt see that. 

[015point9]

11 hours ago, Cowboy said:

Here's a good upgrade list for the automatics. http://www.cumminsforum.com/forum/94-98-drivetrain-except-engine/452157-proper-upgrade-list-transmission.html

 

Auto Upgrade list

$700 for the TC

$160 for the billet parts

$100 for the Shift kit.

Total = $960

 

24 Valve upgrade list.

$500 for gauges

$430 for the edge EZ

$420 for RV275's

$20 for boost controller

Total - $1370

   

Grand Total of just $2330!

 

 

Thanks for posting...I read so many posts of people that have this or that and I really don't know which is best for long term performance and at same time not tearing up my equipment.  That's why I like this site compared to other sites that seem to revolve around speed more so than keeping what you have running good.

 

I think I'll have "auto Upgrade list" mostly covered by late this summer.  Going to have trans worked on.  The other list I have only gauges covered.  Also need new exhaust, probably with in next 2 years.

 

Thanks

 

[Cowboy]

I should add, as far as the programmer (edge ez), I'm not much of a 24 valve guy, so the guys here will fill you in on the best one to run.

[jlbayes]

For the money of a new edge ez and cost of the gauges.....you could have a new quad adr and leave the pump untapped. I know you are looking for a reliable lower hp setup but with the capabilities of the quad and user friendlyness about it. It is going to be hard to beat.  I have run an edge ez, was very happy with power and how smooth it was. 

 

Edited February 7, 2017 by jlbayes

[Me78569]

truth 

[KATOOM]

Yes, the simplicity of the EZ is hard to beat.  I'd have a Quad if I had time to mess around with fine tuning my trucks performance/fuel mileage.  But.....then I'd have one more thing to consume my time.