VP-44 Failure?

[Rotax3006]

Hi guys

 

First off thanks for the add this looks to be the place for 2nd generation questions.  I have a 98.5 24 V that stopped running.  It was running ok and I parked it for about 10 minutes, wouldn't restart.  Turned over fine just wouldn't fire.  Changed the fuel filter and bled the system.  Cracked the injectors and only got fuel out of cyl 3 and 4.  It seemed like it was only the lift pump pushing fuel not the injector pump, fuel just ran out when the lift pump was going.  Pulled it and managed to get it started (have to love a 5 speed).  Had a major stumble on the low end but once you got going it did ok.  Not great but got it home.  It would die if you let off the pedal but as long as you kept it above 1500 it would stay running.  Pulled the codes and had the following P1693, P0336, P1689, P0216.  I did the hotwire test and it would make a faint click sound when you energized the pump but it wouldn't start.  I'm thinking the VP-44 finally died at 252000 miles but I don't want to spend $1500 if there is something else I should look at. Thanks guys

BIll F.     

Edited December 18, 2018 by Rotax3006

[dripley]

I would say you are right on track with a VP failure. Codes are pointing that way too. You can get a better deal than $1500 on a VP. DAP and Vulcan performance will get you in for just over a grand depending on what you want.

[Dieselfuture]

Wow 252k, you might be a record holder, around here at least. I'd say your VP is done. Any special treatment through out the life of vp, like two cycle oil, keeping fuel PSI between 14-20. Did you put all the miles on yourself, how do you know its original.

[Marcus2000monster]

Yep VP44 Time. I’d go with Eric at @Vulcan he a great guy. 

[dripley]

We have seen a few long life VP's of late.

@Mopar1973Man at 243k

I saw someone post up a pump with 253k, @Tractorman I think. Could be wrong.

Mine has 240.5k and still going.

 

And now @Rotax3006 with 252k. I be interested just like @Dieselfuture in how treated yours. Mine got good fuel pressure and a steady diet of 2 stroke. It has also survived 2 lift pump failures.

[Blueox01]

3 minutes ago, dripley said:

We have seen a few long life VP's of late.

@Mopar1973Man at 243k

I saw someone post up a pump with 253k, @Tractorman I think. Could be wrong.

Mine has 240.5k and still going.

 

And now @Rotax3006 with 252k. I be interested just like @Dieselfuture in how treated yours. Mine got good fuel pressure and a steady diet of 2 stroke. It has also survived 2 lift pump failures.

I wish I could find my Maint. records but I'm sure my VP lasted between 400k -500K since my 53 block cracked at 453K  just can't remember whether the electronics failed before or after that. It almost felt like exhaust was plugged, not a dead spot like the APPS but just a restriction, paid $400 to figure out it wasn't exhaust plugged. 

[dave110]

Dang VP44's. Can't barely make 1/4 million miles before they crap out. That's it, I'm P-pumping my truck 

[Blueox01]

4 minutes ago, dave110 said:

Dang VP44's. Can't barely make 1/4 million miles before they crap out. That's it, I'm P-pumping my truck 

When my current VP fails I have seriously consider that, but I would have to scrounge for the parts, 3k plus for conversions in heavy on my wallet.

[stodg73]

Not a cheap prospect... Just ask me how I know....

[Mopar1973Man]

1 hour ago, dave110 said:

Dang VP44's. Can't barely make 1/4 million miles before they crap out. That's it, I'm P-pumping my truck 

 

By the time you pay the $4k for the pump conversion and install it. I'll have enough money to purchase a MILLION miles worth of VP44's and meet you at the other side. But even p-pumps don't last forever either and do wear out as well.

 

Could be worse just by 2003 or newer truck and have to replace $4k worth of injectors every 100k to 150k miles. VP44 pales by far to the cost of CR injectors. 

[dave110]

2 minutes ago, Mopar1973Man said:

 

By the time you pay the $4k for the pump conversion and install it. I'll have enough money to purchase a MILLION miles worth of VP44's and meet you at the other side. But even p-pumps don't last forever either and do wear out as well.

 

Could be worse just by 2003 or newer truck and have to replace $4k worth of injectors every 100k to 150k miles. VP44 pales by far to the cost of CR injectors. 

See the little  guy at the end of my sentence? That means I was making a joke. It's my way of at the 12v guys who say VP44's are unreliable. No way I'll ever P-pump my truck. I like my tachometer.

[Rotax3006]

 

4 hours ago, Dieselfuture said:

Wow 252k, you might be a record holder, around here at least. I'd say your VP is done. Any special treatment through out the life of vp, like two cycle oil, keeping fuel PSI between 14-20. Did you put all the miles on yourself, how do you know its original.

Thanks for all the input guys. I figured it was the vp, I have been living on borrowed time I guess. I have not done anything special to get that many miles. Stock lift pump changed couple times, Howe’s treatment in the winter. Try to get fresh fuel at the truck stop not the junk that sets around town. No tuner or power mods. Current fuel pressure is 13 according to my cheap oriley gauge.  I bought the truck with 50000 miles from my cousin who bought it new. So I’m sure it is original pump. 

 

Thanks again .

[dripley]

My oe died at 75k. Truck was bone stock.

[Blueox01]

1 hour ago, Mopar1973Man said:

 

By the time you pay the $4k for the pump conversion and install it. I'll have enough money to purchase a MILLION miles worth of VP44's and meet you at the other side. But even p-pumps don't last forever either and do wear out as well.

 

Could be worse just by 2003 or newer truck and have to replace $4k worth of injectors every 100k to 150k miles. VP44 pales by far to the cost of CR injectors. 

I'm determined to find my maint records, I know I went 400k-500k before 1st VP died, Wife gets home the 20th,she knows where all the body's are buried

Maybe I should clarify, She knows where all the documents are filed.

Edited December 19, 2018 by Blueox01

[NIsaacs]

326k on my oem vp, several oem lift pumps, an Airtex, DDRP and now a Raptor. I always run on the top half of my fuel tank. Low fuel is harder to pump. Low fuel is hot fuel, hot fuel = hot vp.

[Rotax3006]

Just posting the follow up stuff. Put a new pump in and all appears to be solved. Went with an industrial injection pump from a local shop. Had a little trouble getting it started, mainly from weak batteries.  Up and running with no codes. 

 

Thanks

 Bill

[Mopar1973Man]

On 12/19/2018 at 3:10 AM, NIsaacs said:

326k on my oem vp, several oem lift pumps, an Airtex, DDRP and now a Raptor. I always run on the top half of my fuel tank. Low fuel is harder to pump. Low fuel is hot fuel, hot fuel = hot vp.

 

As long as the fuel pressure is above 14 PSI there is enough flow of fuel to keep the fuel temperature down to the same as the IAT and it will follow each other right down to EMPTY on the fuel gauge. During winter time still follows the IAT fairly close just like the summer time IAT will get up to 130F or so and fuel temp is right there with it.

 

[dripley]

6 hours ago, Rotax3006 said:

Just posting the follow up stuff. Put a new pump in and all appears to be solved. Went with an industrial injection pump from a local shop. Had a little trouble getting it started, mainly from weak batteries.  Up and running with no codes. 

 

Thanks

 Bill

Always good to see a successful ending. 

[Tractorman]

On ‎12‎/‎18‎/‎2018 at 3:48 PM, dripley said:

I saw someone post up a pump with 253k, @Tractorman I think. Could be wrong.

 

Not quite, but headed there.  I am the original owner.  First VP44 got the P0216 code at 64,000 miles.  I figured out how to drive around the limp mode for another year and 23,000 miles (to 87,000 miles) before the Dealer replaced the VP44 and did the in-tank lift pump conversion - all under warranty.

 

I am at 305,000 miles on the truck now, so that makes about 218,000 miles on the second VP44 and still going strong.

 

On ‎12‎/‎18‎/‎2018 at 6:58 PM, dripley said:

My oe died at 75k. Truck was bone stock.

 

Interesting.  We have the same year trucks with the six speed transmission.  Just curious, did your VP44 have the timing piston failure, too?  Did Dodge warranty your pump and do the in-tank lift pump conversion?

 

- John

Edited December 31, 2018 by Tractorman

[pepsi71ocean]

Truck is on its 3rd VP at 126,000. I had to go back on my fuelly app to see. 

 

1st was at 44k(when I bought the truck) the rotor seized on the pump.

2nd was at 78k(it was a checzh rebuild, and was leaking out the front seal shaft. eventually it failed with the timing piston in one position, and would smoke like a bear, and idle high in the cold.

 

 

Edited January 1, 2019 by pepsi71ocean