IT NEW HEAD TIME!

[Dumb A]

Hello everyone, my questions today start with this list of parts, loaded head, ARP studs, three piece manifold and OEM gasket for my 02 Cummins. I don't plan on boosting HP but have RV-275 injectors and a power puck. Looking for dependability...

 

Is there better quality parts that I should be looking for than the parts listed below. 

 

A better supplier.

 

Better price.

 

Just trying to make a good decision rather than my usual mistakes, thanks everyone!!!

 

Item

Qty

Price

Total

Loaded cummins head 5.9L

PSP-PP-24vhead-LOEM

1

$1,420.00

$1,420.00

1686: 3852

 

$199.00

$199.00

ARP 12mm Headstud Kit - 247-4202

ARP-247-4202

1

$433.88

$433.88

Genuine Cummins Standard Thickness Head Gasket

CMS-3977063

1

$145.99

$145.99

DAP Assembled 3-Piece T3 Exhaust Manifold Pyro Tapped With Gaskets - 24VT3M

DAP-24VT3M

1

$349.00

$349.00

 

 

$2,547.8

 

 

 

[Silverwolf2691]

Apologies if its posted else where, but why are you replacing the head? Is it too cracked to reuse?

 

When I did mine I had it machined, magnafluxed, and cleaned. They took .007 off to make it flat again.

 

Personally I would get the full upper gasket set, not sure how loaded that head is or where you are getting it from. Reason being there are a few other gaskets that you are disturbing while you are that far into the engine, and going back in after putting it all back together isnt fun.

I believe the one I used was from genos, item #4090035. I can double check when I get home tonight.

 

I did a fair amount of other fixes while I had everything apart however..

[Threadzy]

I would include a Quadzilla. It will outperform the powerpuck by leaps and bounds. By making a good tune you will get better fuel mileage. No smoke.  And all around better driveability loaded or unloaded. I used to have a power puck. You will get a fair amount of smoke from it with the RV275 injectors until you build enough boost.  Less fuel economy. Diesel is only going to go up in price thanks to our fearless leaders. 

[Dieselfuture]

I would personally not trust "new" assembled crate head from someone, done that before and almost ruined an engine on different vehicle I had. If there's a shop you trust, take it in and have them go through it. If it was me I'd have the valve seal seats machined to be able to use top hat style seals. Then again I'm different. I know some people use a 6.7 head not sure what's all involved, maybe worth looking into. Also later 6.7 heads had better trunions that have oil galleys to keep them from wearing out prematurely. If you don't go with a 6.7 head a place look into some trunions from newer style heads. I believe @dripley got some for his truck.

[Dumb A]

I will take my head in tomorrow and get it checked out, I had a small coolant leak at the back of my head, driver's side. I was attempting to get everything lined up in preparation for the worse case scenario, cracked head.... That's why the questions. What I also found was cracked pistons on 1,2,3 and 5, along with hit marks from the intake valves on top of the pistons on 2 and 5. The last picture was my coolant leak, head gasket failed... Also I should have mentioned that the parts list is from DAP. 

[dripley]

I did use the whole rocker assembly from 6.7. Some of mine were galled. I found a used set on Ebay with push rods;, exact same part. I went Kenworth dealer and talked about new ones and we were pretty sure the new ones would fit but the part numbers were different. Took a chance on the used since if I ordered the new ones they were mine and I could not return them. As far as a new loaded head, just be careful of where it comes from if you go that route. There are some cheap ones out there. I have no idea which ones to buy. The ARP studs are good but if plan on staying where you are on power you dont need them. The stock bolts will hold. I replaced my head gasket right at 2 years ago and reused the bolts that came on the engine. They were well within spec per Cummins. That being said though, what cause all of the damage to that engine? Also was it you that posted the thread with the cracked head a little while back? 

 In fairness I will add that I did not have the cash for the ARP studs at the time. And since the bolts were in spec I chose to install them. I figured if I went for more power with a Quad I would replace them at that time.  It is not a hard swap since you do one at a time.

[Doubletrouble]

 That's alot of damage to that engine. How did that happen? Did it get super hot?

[Dieselfuture]

I want to know too, wow. I beat my truck pretty hurd more than once before taking the head off and luckily the head and everything else was still good, I was nervous when I took it in to get checked out as a lot of people had cracked heads with these 24v. Yours must of ran hot or something, too much timing maybe idk, valves hit pistons how does that happen on an engine that's gear driven no timing belt to break. Unless it dropped a valve before and was fixed then sold, probably when they seen cracks in the head just replaced a valve and called it a day. Idk just mumbling...

[Dumb A]

I bought it 6 months ago, rebuilt the rear end, got it running and have 3500 miles since that time. The problems have been many. I'm likely going to do a complete rebuild on the engine. Any recommendations on a complete engine rebuild kit, source, better quality is preferred, no Chinese garbage. The head looks pretty good but I will take it in tomorrow and have it checked for flat and cracks along with valves and seats.

Dripley, I don't think I posted about a cracked head but I did post a head leak issue a bit a month or so ago. That problem was a sensor had been screwed into the 3/4 npt port in the back of the head and was leaking coolant from it. I replaced it with a npt plug and fixed that problem. Just to discover a leak on #6 connector tube, got that fixed, new tubes and discovered a leak at the head gasket, driver's side all the way aft. That's why I removed the head, just to find cracked pistons and valve contact. I should have shot this truck with a 50 cal. round months ago. While that doesn't fix anything it would have put a grin on my face.

[wil440]

That doesn't look like a dropped valve ..... way too little damage, If it had dropped a valve properly the top of piston would look like WW3, I'd say  it's been over revved as those marks are just kiss marks.

Or a sticking valve due to it getting hot

Or someone made a right mess of doing the tappets and got one/some way too tight

Or  valve lash was that much a pushrod ended up on the edge of the rocker instead of in it's place

Or someone rebuilt the timing gears and got it a tooth out 

 

Anything that reduced the piston to valve clearance by just enough for contact but not total destruction

[Dieselfuture]

3 hours ago, wil440 said:

That doesn't look like a dropped valve ..... way too little damage, If it had dropped a valve properly the top of piston would look like WW3, I'd say  it's been over revved as those marks are just kiss marks.

Or a sticking valve due to it getting hot

Or someone made a right mess of doing the tappets and got one/some way too tight

Or  valve lash was that much a pushrod ended up on the edge of the rocker instead of in it's place

Or someone rebuilt the timing gears and got it a tooth out 

 

Anything that reduced the piston to valve clearance by just enough for contact but not total destruction

That makes more sense than my Mamba Jamba. Some days I feel like saying something without thinking too hard before I do.

8 hours ago, Dumb A said:

Any recommendations on a complete engine rebuild kit, source, better quality is preferred, no Chinese garbage

There was a thread @TFaoro had on rebuilding his engine, he also p pumped it which I wouldn't recommend for normal use. I believe he went with all factory Cummins stuff, I want to say he did use some Marine parts. Maybe things like bearings and pistons, I can't remember. If you're planning on more hp, I would say putting in studs, better push rods, valve springs and like I mentioned earlier if you do disassemble the head I would spend $80 at least that's what I was quoted, to machine seats for valve seals so you can use top hat style. I keep saying it because there are few of us had issues with valve seals coming off the guide after head rebuilds. I did quite a bit of work trying to figure out how to use ford seals, but according to another member they didn't work with his factory springs. I went with aftermarket springs from Manton push rods and and Ford top hat seals worked fine with that combo. 

You're not going to have an issue with valve seal unless you pushing a lot of boost or have a lot of drive pressure, apparently I did. 

 

 

Edited March 18, 2021 by Dieselfuture

[Dumb A]

Have any of you used the rebuild kit from Diesel Auto Power. 

[Mopar1973Man]

I used a local machine shop in Caldwell ID. He specialized in Cummins engine and building racing engines. I know next time I'll not cheap out I only did 18 of the 24 valve guides because of budget limits. ARP 425 studs, head gasket kit, shortly afterwards installed 150 HP injectors. Still running 20° to 22° @ 2k RPM.

[dripley]

I used a Cummins gasket set I bought on Ebay. Not sure what DAP sells but he is not known for selling junk at all. He is as reputable as the come.

[Silverwolf2691]

@Dumb A, how many miles are on the truck and what was its original use(s)? Also, how many pistons have the valve dent in them?

 

most on the forums around the web kind of lean towards all Cummins parts and non coated bearings. mostly i think because its a large chunk of cash to rebuild, even before performance parts get thrown into the mix, and people have been burned trying to go with other brand parts. Along the same lines of why even here for thermostats, Cummins or Napa is the recommendation.

 

non coated bearings because the coating can wear off or chip off, but i think those were older posts, circa 2010..  

 

[Dumb A]

Silverwolf, I will look into Cummins OEM rebuild kit. I don't know the history of this truck, obviously abused though. Bought it not running. Two pistons were tapped by intake valves and 4 pistons have cracks. The bores look good and measure out at 4.015 diameter, still see cross hatch marks in bores. I've run the truck 3500 miles and can still read the dip stick through the oil and no blow by or wind in the basement!!! I will lift the engine out in the morning and disassemble it to see what needs to be ordered. The head measured at the low limit 4.125 thickness. So it has been surfaced a couple of times? New head time @ 208K miles. I will get her back up and running again. 

[Mopar1973Man]

6 hours ago, Dumb A said:

Two pistons were tapped by intake valves and 4 pistons have cracks.

 

Most likely the connecting rod bearing are washed out. I've seen one other that managed to leave valve impressions in the pistons.

[Dieselfuture]

I was thinking someone was sled pulling and floated valves and overheated the engine  guess doesn't matter now, good luck in rebuilt. Waiting on more pictures.

maybe there's something here you'll find helpful

 

[Mopar1973Man]

5 minutes ago, Dieselfuture said:

I was thinking someone was sled pulling and floated valves and overheated the engine  guess doesn't matter now, good luck in rebuilt. Waiting on more pictures.

 

Possible too...

[Dieselfuture]

Just now, Mopar1973Man said:

 

Possible too...

That's why I went with Manton push rods and valve springs just to be safe. I drive it like I stole it every so often.