Lift pump choices with some questions

[CraigsOutside]

I like having information to make educated decisions, so I've been reading as many forum posts from as many different forums as I could find and I've come to the decision that I now have a headache. I've got a few questions that I'm not finding answers for, so it's my turn to ask...Is there a difference in reliability between lift pumps that are externally adjustable for pressure +/- (eg Raptor, AD2 system, FASS adjustable) and those that need to have springs replaced (eg. most other FASS, AD system)? I do like the idea of external adjustability to fine tune fuel pressure. But is the external screw only compressing a spring to increase/decrease pressure as opposed to swapping out for a firmer/lighter spring or is the fuel pressure managed in a different manner?I've seen absolutely no questions or posts discussing the FASS FA D08-95G adjustable standalone lift pump. This is the only fuel pump that seems to be advertised as having a boost compensation port.The idea of connecting the boost to the FP seems logical to control fuel feed based upon demand. Does anyone use this or have any info on reliability of this pump? Does it even work as advertised? Websites all tout that their pumps are "quieter than the competition." That really doesn't tell me much since I don't have any friends/neighbors with diesels to do a side by side comparison with. I guess most important is how loud are these pumps when the engine is idling? Can you still hear the pump running when standing outside the truck?Are there any negatives to NOT bypassing/removing the OEM filter housing even when installing an AD/AD2 or FASS Titanium/Platinum system? Does the fuel pressure still stay well above recommended levels or are people finding the need to upgrade to higher flow pumps?Lastly, with a lift pump that is externally adjustable, what negative effects would there be to using one that has a higher rated output on an engine that is still stock? Say, using a Raptor 150 dialed down for a stock engine with "room to grow." Would a person want to use the higher rated pump if they were to end up running through three filters with modest future gains in HP?I realize that one of the air/fuel separators is the most ideal way to go. Given my current needs and likelihood of only moderate engine improvements in the near future, the available options out there and if money were no object, I'd likely go with an AD2 100. However, my current economic situation is likely going to dictate that I spend between 4 and 500 as an initial investment, so an upgraded lift pump and big line kit first, followed by improving filtration later will be the likely, while slightly more expensive scenario.As far as my needs go; currently stock, 20' boat, in bed camper, sometimes both at the same time, mountain driving, don't like to drive in the slow truck lanes and would rather be passing than being passed when going up those long mountain passes. I don't tow regularly, and the heaviest loads will likely be a bed full of firewood and maybe an 8' trailer as well. Normally driven to/from work empty or with a little something just to smooth out the ride and a light foot on the skinny pedal.I hope all this makes sense and I hope it's not too much for one post. I bought the truck four months ago and it's my first diesel. Thanks in advance for any and all feedback. Craig(Mods, I don't know if this would be better cut up into several separate posts or just the way it is)

[Mopar1973Man]

I like having information to make educated decisions, so I've been reading as many forum posts from as many different forums as I could find and I've come to the decision that I now have a headache.

Hopefully I can help...

I've got a few questions that I'm not finding answers for, so it's my turn to ask... Is there a difference in reliability between lift pumps that are externally adjustable for pressure +/- (eg Raptor, AD2 system, FASS adjustable) and those that need to have springs replaced (eg. most other FASS, AD system)? I do like the idea of external adjustability to fine tune fuel pressure. But is the external screw only compressing a spring to increase/decrease pressure as opposed to swapping out for a firmer/lighter spring or is the fuel pressure managed in a different manner?

As for AirDog, Raptor and FASS use a method of spring and check ball basically to control output pressure. Raptor has been seeing issues with the adjustable system and has a upgrade you can get if needed. I'm going assume the new ones are already upgraded. I just used washers to shim my spring to adjust the pressure.

I've seen absolutely no questions or posts discussing the FASS FA D08-95G adjustable standalone lift pump. This is the only fuel pump that seems to be advertised as having a boost compensation port.The idea of connecting the boost to the FP seems logical to control fuel feed based upon demand. Does anyone use this or have any info on reliability of this pump? Does it even work as advertised?

I'm sorry I've don't have any information on this pump as of yet.

Websites all tout that their pumps are "quieter than the competition." That really doesn't tell me much since I don't have any friends/neighbors with diesels to do a side by side comparison with. I guess most important is how loud are these pumps when the engine is idling? Can you still hear the pump running when standing outside the truck?

My old school AirDog is really quiet and typically can't even hear it running. As for the newer AirDogs they can be rather loud at times.

Are there any negatives to NOT bypassing/removing the OEM filter housing even when installing an AD/AD2 or FASS Titanium/Platinum system? Does the fuel pressure still stay well above recommended levels or are people finding the need to upgrade to higher flow pumps?

I'm still running my stock fuel filter without any problems. I've got 19 PSI at idle and 17 PSI at WOT. This is with the Fleetguard 10 micron filter installed in the can.

Lastly, with a lift pump that is externally adjustable, what negative effects would there be to using one that has a higher rated output on an engine that is still stock? Say, using a Raptor 150 dialed down for a stock engine with "room to grow." Would a person want to use the higher rated pump if they were to end up running through three filters with modest future gains in HP?

There is no problem using a AirDog 150 on a stock truck. The bonus is the pressure is much more stable over a AirDog 100 where you might see 3-5 PSI fall versus my 2-3 PSI fall.

I realize that one of the air/fuel separators is the most ideal way to go. Given my current needs and likelihood of only moderate engine improvements in the near future, the available options out there and if money were no object, I'd likely go with an AD2 100. However, my current economic situation is likely going to dictate that I spend between 4 and 500 as an initial investment, so an upgraded lift pump and big line kit first, followed by improving filtration later will be the likely, while slightly more expensive scenario.

I would opt for the 150 if you could. But the 100 will do just fine to about 450-500 HP. Also I would convert over to the old school JIC / PushLoc fitting like what I'm using to take care of air leak issues. There is a member here that I spent over an hour on the phone isolating out a air leak issue on a AirDog 165 that was most likely the quick connectors.

As far as my needs go; currently stock, 20' boat, in bed camper, sometimes both at the same time, mountain driving, don't like to drive in the slow truck lanes and would rather be passing than being passed when going up those long mountain passes. I don't tow regularly, and the heaviest loads will likely be a bed full of firewood and maybe an 8' trailer as well. Normally driven to/from work empty or with a little something just to smooth out the ride and a light foot on the skinny pedal.

Your a twin of me. I haul a 8x8 utility trailer and the truck loaded with firewood or hitch up the 31' foot travel trailer and go camping. My fuel system is still rock solid even in the extreme conditions of towing on steep grades. One of my local grades is 16% and that's not a typo.

I hope all this makes sense and I hope it's not too much for one post. I bought the truck four months ago and it's my first diesel. Thanks in advance for any and all feedback. Craig (Mods, I don't know if this would be better cut up into several separate posts or just the way it is)

No. Your post is fine... Hopefully I covered you questions.

[flagmanruss]

I'm running an AD150, big line kit, through the OEM filter housing & retaining WIF function, better cartridge (I forget the number), I replaced the banjo fittings on the stock filter & throughout as they are terribly restrictive... silly to big line it & leave the banjos. I used the JIC fittings from Vulcan that Mike mentions. If you use a 100 pump, you don't need a new pickup. With a 150 you do (OEM is too small).

[98whitelightnin]

I have a 5 or 6 yr old fass 150hpfp without filters. its been an excelent pump and holds 17-18 @ idle and 16-17 with steady driving. Its run through the oe filter housing with a big line kit from vulcan. It is a loud pump, if your in the bed or close to the pump while its idleing you can hear it over the cummins rattle. I have been seeing new posts seems like almost every other day about a raptor or airdog going belly up but never really hear anything about fass. If my fass dies I will be going with one of these pumps so dont overlook the simplicity of a mechanical belt drivin pump http://www.cumminsperformanceparts.com/dttasmefupu.html , Jamie still has the old pricing but if you buy it direct from DTT they are charging more now. A few members here have this pump and all seems to be well with them.

[dripley]

I put my ADII in about 1.5 years ago. It is run thru the oe fuel canister with a vulcan big line kit. It has run flawlessly since install. It is definately overkill for my truck, but did not cost much more thant the 150 + it came with a kit to ditch my in tank pump. Mine came with quick disconnects and jic fittings. I have heard of some folks having problems with the quick diconnects, but I have not experienced any. As far as noise, I cannot hear mine unless the engine is not running. I lile the external pressure adjustment for convenience. Ther are a couple of mechanical pumps out ther also. DTT assasin and Fuel Boss I think. I dont know much about them othe than what i have seen on the internet. Not trying to muddy the water, it is just another option out there that it seems other folks are trying.

[mrtowman4u]

I just replaced an AD 165 that has been on less than 2 yrs. It was blowing fuses, growling, and the quick connects were sucking air causing me a lot of problems. Mike told me to call Eric at Vulcan, I ordered the new Fuel Lab velocity 200 with fuel line kit. The install was a lot easier and quicker than the ad. That's just my opinion.Also it has adjustable pressure preset at 18 psi. It can handle up to 1000 HP upgrades! Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

[hex0rz]

I read a little bit of your post and skimming through other replies, I hear no mention of the DTT mechanical lift pump. IMO I think its hands down the way to go. It does not have a FASS setup to it, but if you get a filter block you can achieve this.Look it up, I can't remember the URL to it but a quick google turn results. Its also in the same ballpark price as the AD and FASS.EDIT: I hear a mention of the DTT and fuel boss... Sorry.

[Gamble]

I posted a full review of my Assassin Pump on here recently and on the cumminsforum also. I highly recommend it, I can say my pressure actually goes up when I hit the skinny pedal. something none of the electrical pumps do. Good luck.

[GSP7]

Mike told me to call Eric at Vulcan, I ordered the new Fuel Lab velocity 200 with fuel line kit.

Is this the Fuel Lab pump you speak of ? http://streettunedmotorsports.com/parts/fuelab_prodigy_fuel_pump.htm

[CraigsOutside]

With those switching to the mechanical pumps... Are there any issues with not having anything hooked up to the oem pump wires? Does the ECM need to send or get signals from it to prevent throwing any codes? Also, is there an aftermarket fuel regulator that needs to be installed as well to prevent pressures above 20psi as the engine rpms go up? (That's the max pressure the vp can handle safely, correct?) I think the mechanical pumps may be a little over my available budget for this upgrade.What sort of failures have the Raptors been having specifically?I took a look at the Fuel Lab pump on the fuelab dot com website and it also sounds good. They also have air separation systems but only for the 200gph pump. Being a brushless design, they will be much quieter compared to the gear rotor design. It's not adjustable except with an external regulator it seems. How much pressure drop at WOT from the preset 18psi is being seen? Although that pump may be better in design, the price package goes up with extra added on. The other thing is they only offer a two year warranty and these are new products. I do like that FASS and AD offer a lifetime warranty.Still haven't made a final decision yet. It's really between the Raptor150 and FASS adjustable 150 at this point I think. Either would be overkill in potential available pressure for now but provide room to grow while keeping pressure within acceptable limits. Comparable in price and within my budget to each other. Regardless, I will definitely go with the big line kit between the filter and vp, replacing the banjos with the JIC fittings.

[Gamble]

There are no issues with the old pump wires as they are still intact in the tank for the fuel gauge. I didn't unhook any wires from the block mounted pump and I haven't had any codes thrown. There is a regulator used to prevent over 20 PSI. It can be adjusted somewhat to dial in pressure, but that is mostly done using different size pulleys. I don't think the complete kit is really that much higher than any other pump, especially since it comes with everything you need.

[Mopar1973Man]

If the stock lift pump lead is left unhooked it will throw a P0230 but there is no harm in that code being thrown and it will not limp mode the truck.

[FlatTwin]

Using a Raptor 100 with a Big Line kit from Vulcan here and good luck with it. Did have one die on me but Raptor was very good and sent me a new one out that week. No noise at all, I hear it spin up when I turn the key on when it pressurizes the system, and thats it.

[Jbh97009]

I just replaced an AD 165 that has been on less than 2 yrs. It was blowing fuses, growling, and the quick connects were sucking air causing me a lot of problems. Mike told me to call Eric at Vulcan, I ordered the new Fuel Lab velocity 200 with fuel line kit. The install was a lot easier and quicker than the ad. That's just my opinion. Also it has adjustable pressure preset at 18 psi. It can handle up to 1000 HP upgrades! Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

Any more info, or an update on this pump? I'm looking at getting one to replace my airdog...

[Utah Dually]

I run the Raptor 100 and here is why. No return to the tank, Just fine for a stock truck with injectors, didn't have to change stock draw straw since my stock pump was on the motor. I can't even hear the thing run. I only know it is working when the fuel gauge spikes quickly when I turn on the key.This perception that the Raptor pumps are falling like flies is not true in my opinion. I did a lot or research and talked to a lot of people before buying one and didn't find it to be a compelling argument. I would highly recommend putting a real filter in front (between your tank and pump) of whatever pump you put on. I got extra fittings from Eric (Great customer service by the way) at Vulcan to fit on my stock lift pump so I can use it as a spare. If the Raptor ever gives me issues on the road I can just duck tape the old stock pump up in place of the Raptor and get back to the barn.There are lots of ways to go and you can drive yourself crazy trying to make the perfect decision. I know I did. I think the main thing is to pick a good vendor and don't short cut the install. Do it right, all the way, the first time and you will be good to go for a long time.

[mrtowman4u]

Any more info, or an update on this pump? I'm looking at getting one to replace my airdog...

Well the pump is working great actually! No noise maintains pressure! Now if the guy that owns the truck will just keep the truck running, it is a good system!

[Ironforger]

Great thread. I'll be upgrading my lift pump in the near future & appreciate all the info mentioned here.PS , has the OP decided on which kit to purchase? Still thinking about it?

[Reg02]

Fass 150 in my truck. only bought the truck coupe months ago but the gentle men that owned the truck said that it was installed about 60,000km before I bought it. I have put over 10,000km on the truck already, so its at around 70,000 km and no hiccups yet. I also hold 22psi idle and have never dropped below 19psi wto even with the attitude on 5x5. just my