Goodbye Edge Comp, Hello Quadzilla Adrenaline

[BBHD]

I have to say I've always  been partial to Quadzilla for many years (both cummins and duramax) and after reading about @TFaoro ,@Me78569 success and now @Mopar1973Man working with the V2 my mind is made up on what I'm going to run now to find time to get my clutch installed so I can keep the DAP125's in for good...had to test'em out . I am confident things can be tuned properly until a turbo is in the budget 

[Me78569]

1 hour ago, Silverdodge said:

So what is the 1000 2000 3000 tune difference 

 

Difference in the V1 tuning is the map and how aggressive fueling comes on. Typically any large injector truck should run the 1000 series as there is no need for an aggressive fueling map.  Big injectors flow enough fuel even on stock tuning to flood the turbo down low.  Once boost is up the tuning maps are pretty similar.  

 

 

Now for the V2 tuning there is really not much difference the vast majority of the tuning is done VIA the canbus tuning.    You could run a more aggressive wiretap map behind the canbus tuning but I double you would notice much difference truthfully.     Having the custom tuning variables in place for fuel stretch, low limit fuel and low limit %  will give you more than enough "aggressive" feeling.

20 minutes ago, BBHD said:

I have to say I've always  been partial to Quadzilla for many years (both cummins and duramax) and after reading about @TFaoro ,@Me78569 success and now @Mopar1973Man working with the V2 my mind is made up on what I'm going to run now to find time to get my clutch installed so I can keep the DAP125's in for good...had to test'em out . I am confident things can be tuned properly until a turbo is in the budget 

If you wanna play around with it some you are more than welcome to swing by once I get back into town in early october.  

1 hour ago, Wild and Free said:

Absolutely not! If your going for a goal go for a good one otherwise just buy a dam car.

Hey if I can bump my MPG by a good %10 I am going to.  Don't care if it is a truck or a Prius haha.  There is no drawback with this so I am going to use it.

[AH64ID]

Yes custom tuning is 90% about streetabilty and 10% about peak power. But if you want to keep hp out of the game it shouldn't be used in post #1 as an initial comparison...especially from a device that computes fuel flow on boost  Way too many factors in tuning effect how much boost "x" fuel will make. 

 

As far as a dyno it can show a bit more than just peak numbers. One of the best thing it shows about custom tuning is the smoothness of the power curve. A run with smoothing on "0" with custom tuning is generally smoother than smoothing on "5" with a non custom tune. It's rather impressive and a good selling point too. 

 

Spool is huge with custom tuning as well and a dyno can show that as well, as long as it's the same dyno and each run is done the same way. 

 

Butt dyno generally also is effected with custom tuning since as the tune runs smoother the power feels lower, much lower to some people, so a dyno is a good way to confirm power is there.

 

It's certainly not a requirement, or more than a nice to have, but it does show more than just peak numbers. 

 

 

10 hours ago, TFaoro said:

Either way, if you can save $$$ at the pump I don't think it's a bad thing. BTW the quad will likely improve towing mileage as well. 

As you know you can never save enough money at the pump to cover the cost of mods.... let alone the fuel spent tuning and adjusting to get there. 

 

I see W&F's point, it's a ton of $$$ into a rig that already gets good mileage for what it is. At the end of the day there would be more money in the owners pocket if they left it alone. 

Edited September 11, 2016 by AH64ID

[Mopar1973Man]

3 minutes ago, AH64ID said:

I see W&F's point, it's a ton of $$$ into a rig that already gets good mileage for what it is. At the end of the day there would be more money in the owners pocket if they left it alone. 

 

 

Being the distances I must travel now is another key factor. Then looking round my local area and watching the economy fail and watching business close doors and forcing us to travel farther for needed services. Like so far New Meadows, ID closed the bank and the grocery store. I sold my 1970's cars long ago because they couldn't do the tasks at hand here. So we bought trucks to haul the cargo, supplies, and trailers. I'm a man of many hats and require a truck much more than a car. Search and rescue I sure can't load a ATV in the trunk of a VW. Fire Dept some times I need to skip the fire house and work with my truck hauling pumps and hoses. Again this stuff doesn't fit in a truck of a small car. Then ranching I get phone call from a local gent I work with and haul his hay for his cows. I'm sure a small car would not carry a 2 ton bail on top let alone 4 tons worth. Like I've got a job over in Walla Walla, WA where I'm be hauling tools and such over there to install a clutch for a good friend. Again something a small car can't do. Since there is no trash service I couldn't fit the 3 trash cans in the truck of a small car. 

 

It would be nice if I was a nice little office worker job in a suit and tie just hop in a car and drive to my little 9-5 job. Sure a car is fine for that. 

 

So since I'm a type that uses the truck more so it best to get the MPG as the best I can. 

[AH64ID]

You're missing W&F's point. No one is saying a truck isn't needed or a good thing to have, but the point is that if you're investing this much time and money into a couple percent increase in economy you will end up losing money. 

 

[Mopar1973Man]

We won't know unless we try? So since I was given the chance to try why not? Is it going to pan out? I don't know yet to early to say. What will the total gain be? Just going to have to wait and see... 

2 minutes ago, AH64ID said:

you're investing this much time and money

 

So time wise to install a module typically is less than a hour. Install a set of injectors maybe another hour. So timew isn't realy a factor. Money kind of is but most people want a module. I'd still say I like Edge Comp for a basic module but I sure do like the Quadzilla more I getting to understand the operation of it. Rather complex in its own way. Looking at the price difference between Edge and Quadzilla so Quad is a bit more expensive. I will admit Nick's right, the tuning abilities are way better that either Edge Comp or Edge Juice. I think it awesome to be able to tune all the smoke out and have all the power I want. We all know that smoke is unburnt fuel so there should be some gains with this how much still unknown. Drivability wise its taking some time to adjust on how it feels and reacts. Like Nick said it not about the HP/TQ its about driveability, cleanliness (being smoke free),  and if any gain fall out from that just bonus on top. 

[Wild and Free]

10 hours ago, TFaoro said:

So what about those people who don't have the money to go out and buy a car whenever they want? 

What about the people who need to have a truck with them all the time to haul things in the bed?

What about the people who can't afford the maintenance, insurance, and registration for another vehicle?

 

Getting 20mpg moving 14K pounds around isn't likely.... maybe a realistic goal would be a good idea though.

 

Either way, if you can save $$$ at the pump I don't think it's a bad thing. BTW the quad will likely improve towing mileage as well. 

 

3 minutes ago, AH64ID said:

You're missing W&F's point. No one is saying a truck isn't needed or a good thing to have, but the point is that if you're investing this much time and money into a couple percent increase in economy you will end up losing money. 

 

John just hit the nail on the head with his comment, if one did this early on and had it for many years then yes but for what life is left in most 2nd gens not worth it in my mind. If you can't afford all the other stuff then how can one afford the mods?

Especially on a 2nd gen maintenance and repair money sucking hogs.

Diesels cost more to insure and license in many areas on top of it.

I guarantee my wife's cars have seen more stuff hauled in them than most pavement queens on the road, some days I have to say I am in total amazement of what she gets crammed into them.

[leathermaneod]

I just want to throw in here that some guys will keep the 2ng gens for many more years to come just because they like them for one. Also, even though they are getting expensive to maintain(this is mostly because they are at that age, once you fix everything they'll be good for a while again), I think it's still cheaper for someone who does their own work, than it is to buy a new truck. On top of that, idk about you all, but I HATE dealing with car dealers, especially for warranty issues. I'd rather buy a new car for less money and have no warranty, but a 2nd gen style vehicle that I can fix myself. Obviously that's not possible, so I'll stick with the older stuff for as long as I possibly can. Plus I don't need or want any of this electronic bs that comes on a car these days. More stuff to break. Like backup camera and backup sensors an all this. Sure if you want it it's fine, but you should be able to get a vehicle without it. If I were to buy a new truck, I would want to keep it for 15-20 years. I don't think that would be possible with today's vehicles, so I'll stick to my 2nd gen as long as I physically can. And I am very interested in getting the best mpgs that I can. I want a good tuner anyway why not have the cleanest thing available? Maybe we can help reduce all the emissions bs by showing that the 2nd gens can be clean if tuned properly. Unlikely I know but why not? Anyway just my $.02

[CSM]

39 minutes ago, AH64ID said:

You're missing W&F's point. No one is saying a truck isn't needed or a good thing to have, but the point is that if you're investing this much time and money into a couple percent increase in economy you will end up losing money. 

 

 

I agree with both you guys.  However, this stupid old truck has become something of an obsession.  I tell myself its paid for and iI have to drive it to get my money back out of it!  

[Me78569]

I've had my quad for 3 years now so getting better mpg is a thing I am interested.  I bought the quad to have fun with it.  My truck is a tool and a hobby, unless you can say you don't ever spend money on a hobby we are in the same boat.  I can tell you all day long that money you spent on your hobby is not going to payself back.  However if someone said I will give you $ 1 a day for free...wouldn't you take it?   Sure there is already money vested but a buck is still a buck. 

 

Keep in mind Quad sent mike this box to try and give his thoughts on....he did not go out and buy this box to save money.  Quad specifically wants to know if Mike's mpg increases.....end of story.

 

It is hard to get your money back on mods, but keeping an old car or truck on the road is almost always much cheaper than buying new or another truck. 

 

Ah64ID,

We get that you like solid numbers to prove what you take as fact, but I am sure you can understand the feeling when the sudo hp and torque gauge wrapped around like it never has before.  That's exciting and good enough to report.  It's not exact and that is fine.  The point of this was not to show hp.  

 

I get the point of a dyno but there is no need for one unless you wanna pony up for us to waste your money proving something?   The butt dyno and visual smoke tells us everything we need to know.

 

What we are after is Compared to the edge how happy are you with drivability and smoke.  We all get excited with new toys so let the hp thing go.  If it will make you feel better we can remove it from the first post.

So let's not ruin this by pointing fingers about the past.

[TFaoro]

Let's say a typical truck gets 17mpg. Let's say the quad bumps the mileage by 2mpg. Let's say fuel is nice and cheap, $2.15

Remember, the more expensive fuel is the faster it's going to pay for itself. Also, a lower mileage with the same bump in mileage is going to increase the net gain.  A module costs $675 with iQuad BT

 

675 = (-2.15*X)/19 + (2.15*X)/17         Solve for X

 

You get 50,703.5 miles. I had my truck for 3.5 years before it was stolen and put 46,000 miles on it. The module would have paid for itself in 4 years.

Yes in 4 years the pesky little 2nd gens are still going to be all over the road.

Yes almost all of the 2nd gens on the road have some sort of programmer, so why not choose this one over the others?

 

We can also do the math if you want to switch from something else. Let's say you have an edge comp worth $350 (what I sold mine for) Hold all other parameters the same and here's the equation

 

675-350 = (-2.15*X)/19 + (2.15*X)/17         Solve for X

 

We get   24,412.8 miles. Around 2 years of driving or so? Still sounds worth it to me. 

 

Edge JWA or smarty can go for $500 or so...

 

675-500 = (-2.15*X)/19 + (2.15*X)/17         Solve for X

 

We get   13,145.3  miles. A little over 1 year of driving? That's a pretty quick return. 

 

I like math..... I think I've made my point.

 

3 hours ago, Wild and Free said:

John just hit the nail on the head with his comment, if one did this early on and had it for many years then yes but for what life is left in most 2nd gens not worth it in my mind. If you can't afford all the other stuff then how can one afford the mods?

Especially on a 2nd gen maintenance and repair money sucking hogs.

Diesels cost more to insure and license in many areas on top of it.

I guarantee my wife's cars have seen more stuff hauled in them than most pavement queens on the road, some days I have to say I am in total amazement of what she gets crammed into them.

Afford what "other stuff" A 10K car + a vehicles insurance + repair costs on a 2nd vehicle??? That's a lot of money compared to a $675 module. 

So once again you're hinting at selling the truck. Sorry, but your wife's car isn't going to pull around a 10K trailer. It isn't going to haul a freshly killed buck in the trunk with blood spilling everywhere. It isn't going to haul 100 gallons of diesel for the farm equipment. It isn't going to haul a flat tire that stands 5ft tall.  

Heck that's why many people still have these trucks. They're cheap to buy if you find a deal, and little maintenance things here and there aren't bad compared to making the payments on another car. 

[Me78569]

Yep might as well gain all we can provided we remember that some times we buy things on the truck as a hobby.  

 

A lot of the things we do I life are not financially justified.

 

Treat it as a hobby and let's see how much improvement we can see.

[dripley]

A lot of good discussion here. Speaking as some one who has not done a lot mods to my truck, the power mods I did just for that, more power. All of them said I "could" see mileage gains. The banks package netted no mileage gains but added good power. The RV 275's bumped the power and did give me a near 5% mpg gain. Then adding the comp gave another near 5% gain. Pretty much a win win in my book. All of this is based on highway mileage. Since my truck is sometimes my office it idles to much to get an accurate in town mileage.

 I never expected the fuel savings to pay for the mods. It was just a cost for more power that I thought was worth the money. The reason I went with the Banks over the Comp many years ago was that it was NOT adjustable. That was just not something I was interested in at the time. I like simplicity. But when the Banks started crapping out and I could not seem to get any help from them with it, I decided the Comp would be the way to go. The adjustability turned out to better than I thought it would be back then and i do like it. When I bought the Comp I had no idea the Quad was even an option or I would have looked into it. i will be interested in where this goes.

 I for the most am a pretty simple guy. It is interesting to see all the numbers ya'll post, dyno or no dyno and the different opinions on the same subjects. This is what keeps me here. Ya'll have all helped with keeping this truck under my butt for the past 14 years 11 months and 384k miles. She still runs and pulls better than when I bought it. My thanks to all you for the help.

 And just to keep me honest part of my compensation at work is when I buy fuel I turn it in on my expense report. So any money I have put into mods and saved fuel all is for their benefit. Including the $5500 extra it cost for the Cummins engine. My old truck was a 96 2500 with a V10 in it. The Cummins alone netted them a 225% boost in towing mileage and a 70% boost in highway mileage. 

[Me78569]

How was the tune I sent you last night? 

 

 

Smoke on WOT when on lvl3?  lagginess?  thoughts?

[Mopar1973Man]

Didn't really go beating it to death like the previous tune. I cranked it up on level 6 and drove like a white man to the store and back. Past a few cars along the way to the store and never seen any smoke at all. I'm going to play a bit more with this tune before next jump. 

[Me78569]

Sounds good.  Take a video when you get a chance haha.  I wanna see the difference.

[leathermaneod]

Hey guys I have a couple questions about the quad. First, can I use a mac for the tuning/downloading/updating stuff? Second, as I'm sure you'll remember me saying before, I've been wanting new injectors for a while now because I've always thought the BD 75hp ones I have are really smokey. Now I'm wondering if I should do injectors first, or switch to the quad and try to clean up the smoke with tuning? 

Thanks!

[Mopar1973Man]

Quality of the injectors are what make for a clean injectors. So... If you do go for the Quadzilla to clean up then you might end up losing some power. I would consider a cleaner injector as well.

[leathermaneod]

Ok thanks. I was afraid of that lol. Do you know if I can use a mac with the quad? Or will I have to have windows?

[Mopar1973Man]

Hmmm... I know that you can use Oracle's VirtualBox to load up windows and go that route if need be. I'm not sure of any Mac Software at all. You'll have to ask Spencer @Quadzilla Power or Nick @Me78569 they would know.