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New Cummins owner - Intro and beating the dead horse on fuel delivery

jokra
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Hawkez

Hawkez

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1 hour ago, jokra said:

I do plan to at least call GDP and ask what kind of experience he has with people running a Fuel Boss alongside the in-tank pump.

I've called and talked to Richard a time or two and he is great at returning messages and getting you information.  I'm sure he'll be able to get you the info to make a decision.  I'd be interested in hearing what he has to say as well. 

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CUMMINSDIESELPWR

CUMMINSDIESELPWR

Posted
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5 hours ago, jokra said:

@CUMMINSDIESELPWR Thanks for the input! I'm hearing more and more good about the Fuel Boss. If I had an on-block factory pump that still worked, I think I'd be sold by now. Is that the way yours is setup? Or do you run just the Fuel Boss with no other pump for starting and priming? I'm curious if anyone has the Fuel Boss with the in-tank pump from Chrysler. Would be interesting to find out whether or not those two can co-exist. I have some ideas about how I might be able to make that work, but not sure how it plays out in real life.

my truck doesnt have an in tank pump. i have the stock lift pump bolted to block that is plumbed in but doesnt work off the ecm for some reason. i can hook it to the battery and it will prime, thats what i use it for. ever since i hooked the fuel boss up, the new oem lift pump has been sitting there getting a free ride. sometime this year im going to remove it entirely as all i did to prime the truck during my rebuild was remove the small belt and hook a cordless drill to the fuel boss shaft and spin it over and bam primed instantly. so really a cheap small cordless drill to prime the fuel boss seeing that it site below the fuel tank level wont ever lose prime.  the fuel boss plumbing is set up to use a secondary lift pump.

5 hours ago, jokra said:

My pressure goes from "bad" at idle to "terrible" when I press the go-pedal. So I've been accelerating very slowly and only driving it when necessary until I get the parts. Fortunately I work from home most of the time and don't HAVE to drive it very often.

 

About 9psi idle, normally about 7psi when accelerating slowly and cruising, but if I accelerate hard I can make it dip below 5 if I want to.

 

Now, as a sidenote, I was talking to a neighbor recently who has been a diesel mechanic (school buses) for almost his whole life. He said they have had many motors over the years with various Bosch injection pumps, and he said as long as you have 2psi moving to it, he has never seen any regular problems because of lack of fuel pressure. I know that directly conflicts with what everyone says about these VP44s, but that was his experience. He wasn't working with the Dodge interpretation of the setup, obviously, so maybe that makes all the difference.

 

I also have another neighbor with a 99 3500 CTD that just rolled over 300k. I asked him a couple weeks ago what he did for his lift pump and he said "what lift pump?" 

 

So clearly there are some cases of not doing a lick of different from the factory setup, and it lasting a really long time.

 

But...I don't want to risk it. ;)

the higher pressures are to get fuel flowing through the vp to ensure good cooling as the pcu on top can get stresssed and fail from heat. yes it will run with stock psi but the temps eventually kill them on street trucks

1 hour ago, Hawkez said:

I've called and talked to Richard a time or two and he is great at returning messages and getting you information.  I'm sure he'll be able to get you the info to make a decision.  I'd be interested in hearing what he has to say as well. 

i had trouble getting mine to prime (sealing tape got caught in check valve) he spent a couple hours on the phone with me troubleshooting. If my fuel boss ever failed....  i WOULD buy another from him period.

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015point9

015point9

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Jokra...

 

I'm real new here also, and fuel problems is what lead me to this site also. My fuel problem happened 1,200 miles from home at a RV park.  Couldn't work on it myself and really didn't know about fuel problems 2nd gens at the time anyway.  Had a FASS pump that was over 10 years old and 90,000 miles that broke. My theory after breaking down miles from home was a system that was easy to change out and get me somewhere with a mechanic I was happy with.  I was trying to find some type of duel pump system that I would not be stranded or captive to a mechanic.   Someone on here mentioned a Carter back up pump.    Eric at Vulcan makes the set up the is easy to change on the road.   Same fittings, same wiring connections etc.  Carter pump is under my seat in gallon plastic bag ready to go just in case.    If I get stranded somewhere, just unplug airdog pump and plug in carter pump. The only thing I don't like about the set up is the AN fittings.  I have my dash out right now to install pressure gauge and clean up the wiring. So I'm going to replace AN fittings with regular brass fittings.  Maybe me getting to old, but disconnecting those AN fittings in freezing weather, not a easy task for me.

 

Vulcan Performance Products Ph: 360-263-6037  Eric should answer phone.  Ask about Carter pump as back up pump that comes with everything you need to change on the road.  Or as Eric explains, people that are 200 miles from anything and their pump quits.  I think he only makes his set up for Airdog?  But wouldn't be hard to make for FASS pump in my opinion.

 

If doing it all over again I would go with FASS pump just because of customer service and my old FASS lasted over 10 years.  FASS would take different wiring harness I think, but not hard to make another wiring harness.  

 

I like the idea of a back up pump.  You don't know where your old system will fall apart at or who you have to fix it. If you can't fix it yourself.  Even if you know how to fix.  Next time at RV park ask about dropping your fuel tank and watch their faces :)   Hence a back up just in case. 

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CSM

CSM

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Best design would be an engine driven pump pushing fuel to an in tank jet pump that would push 18psi of fuel to the engine.  It would also need a booster pump to prime the system from a separate in tank sump.

 

However, the amount of work required would be excessive.  I just bought a fass.

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WiscoRedkneck

WiscoRedkneck

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First off I am by no means associated with any manufacture now that being said I am running a stock lift pump to hold me over until I get a fuel boss.

what I found is, I already have a draw straw so that makes me different from you jorka, but IMHO if you have an aftermarket pump without a draw straw you are begging for problems.  And last time I checked they sell a special draw straw for you in tank guys....

So you add the draw straw remove the in tank pump then add a stock block mount lift pump to the fuel boss or a cheap aftermarket electric running it through the stock filter/heater as a post filter set up, that way you have one of the most reliable set ups on the market. 

It's the most expensive route but imho if you are changing your fuel pump this is the only way to go.  Some by these trucks for performance, I as many others bought it to work and be reliable.

 

Not to mention air dog 650ish full kit

Fuel boss 650 Ish plus 250 at the most for new pump and drawstraw 

OR 350 for just a raptor that will still need plumbing and most likely a drawstraw

That's my 2 cents, I have heard of and personally failed electric pumps, I'm yet to hear of a fuel boss failure.

Edited by WiscoRedkneck
Stupid autocorrect
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dripley

dripley

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Amazing how much you miss after a post. I would like to add that when I found I had problems with the intank pump I installed a booster pump sold by BD diesel. They worked fine in tandem and eliminated the problems I was having. This was long before i became a member or knew anything about fuel pressure. Ran that set up for near 3 or 4 years before replacing the the whole thing with an AD and a pressure gauge.

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jlbayes

jlbayes

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After running a couple different pumps I have finally grasped that mechanical pumps tend to out live their electrical counter parts. My vp was happy with the AD II 165. However when I ppumped my truck.....not so much. So I sunk a ton of coin into a regulated return setup that works very well but I am at the limit for fuel flow at my hp level. Which is probably 4-5x what you are ever going to do so I do not recommend that route lol. I should have installed a mechanical pump long ago and solved my delivery issues. I am a fan of the fuel boss'.

Edited by jlbayes
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jlbayes

jlbayes

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20 hours ago, Mopar1973Man said:

Here I am with 11 year old AirDog 150 with 229k miles. Not always true that electric pumps are short life spans.

 

You are also well within it's safety margin for use. I was not. They do not like to make a ton of pressure. Had I kept the vp, the AD would have lived a long happy life.

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jokra

jokra

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Haha, nice. At this point I will just be thrilled to see more than 10psi on my fuel pressure gauge, whichever solution I end up with. Good to see someone else here from the mitten. I'm straight west of you a few hours, close to Holland. Are those Silver Lake flags in your profile pic...?

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JAG1

JAG1

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Vulcan Performance makes some of the parts for Air Dog. I was over there watching the CNC machines milling the quick connects.

 

Eric told me that AirDog is still fighting that uphill battle trying to get their reputation back and have since gotten better about using good parts.

 

My Air Dog 100 is still good after about 40-50 thousand but is one of the older good ones.

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JAG1

JAG1

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19 minutes ago, dripley said:

Mine is about 6 years old but I did loose the pump about 15 months ago. They sent me a new no questions asked. Hope it was a good one.

did you tear open the old one to see what went wrong?

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Dieselfuture

Dieselfuture

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I tore my old AD apart after it started leaking outside, it was a tiny seal that seals on Armature shaft, it put some nice groves in shaft too. I ended up rebuilding it with random parts and a small seal I got on line, there is a leak hole between motor and filter housing and if it gets pluged, then when seal goes instead of fuel going outside it will go inside motor.  But I also bought a fast and been running it since. Ad is a back up now. I hope AD and Fassett can figure a better seal than that tiny thing I seen,  mabe something like a mechanical seal, but I'm guessing it will raise price too much.

Also I used a shim so new seal was in different place and brushes still looked great.

Edited by Dieselfuture
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01cummins4ever

01cummins4ever

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5 hours ago, CUMMINSDIESELPWR said:

when airdog was made with love and high quality till it went downhill few years back IIRC..

 

airdogs are good, when they were quality made

Is the reason I carry a spare, mine has been going for 6 years and about a 100k, I don't know what assembly line it came off of but just don't have the level of trust in it I should. 

 

The first one only lasted two weeks and locked up. I checked the gear rotors and they were clean but the shaft would not turn. I called air dog and told them and they sent me a replacement and did not want the old one back.

 

So I tore the old one down and used visegrips on the driveshaft and it finally broke free, and thier were some contacts that looked burnt and I cleaned them up and bench tested it and seemed to work ok. So it might work for a spare but for how long who knows, but it may get me home if needed.

3 hours ago, JAG1 said:

 

 

Eric told me that AirDog is still fighting that uphill battle trying to get their reputation back and have since gotten better about using good parts.

 

 

That's good to hear jag

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