Thinking about getting a 3rd gen.

[Sycostang67]

Since we got the camper, my wife casually mentioned getting a newer truck.  For me that just means newer than what I currently have but nowhere near a new truck.  I've noticed a couple 3rd gens for sale and the main thing I am interested in having would be a real crew cab with a manual transmission.  The 2nd gen I have now, I've had longer than any other truck, just over 7 years while I usually change up around 5 years.  I've heard the 3rd gens tend to need injectors every 100k miles, but aside from that not much else.  I recently rolled over 250k miles as well and know that in my price range I'll be looking at truck with around 200k already.  My truck mostly just sits anymore unless I need to do truck stuff so mileage accumulation has dropped considerably.  Having a tough time deciding if I should throw some more money at the 2nd gen or start over with a 3rd gen.  

[Mopar1973Man]

I'm now in the 3rd Gen family. I've got an 2006 Dodge 3500. A bit nicer truck but they are more expensive to repair.

 

 

if doing any 3rd gen up make sure to find out how many miles on the injectors. 100k to 150k they are done. If OE are still in the truck you have roughly 2,500 for a set of stock injectors. I just sent the injector cores back on 2015 Ram I just done the swap that had 188k and plugging up the DPF.

[NIsaacs]

12 hours ago, Sycostang67 said:

  I've noticed a couple 3rd gens for sale and the main thing I am interested in having would be a real crew cab with a manual transmission.    

 

The 3rd gens. are still considered quad cabs. The real crew cab, started with the 4th gens. 2010.

[Mopar1973Man]

3 minutes ago, NIsaacs said:

The 3rd gens. are still considered quad cabs. The real crew cab, started with the 4th gens. 2010.

 

Still much more room in the back seat area than any 2nd gen. I grab a photo of Thor when the sun comes up more. Heck this morning there is 10 gallons of 15w-40 in the back seat. 

[Dieselfuture]

I'd love to have a 4th or even 5th gen, but the only way I'd buy one if it was deleted or I would do it. I think sooner than later they will push for having all states to pass emissions so if that happens I would want nothing to do with it. I'm keeping my 2nd gen forever even if I get a nicer one with real 4 doors plus my kid said I'll have to give it to him when he grows up, that's if it doesn't rot sway by then 

I was thinking about a 3rd gen early models before they changed piston design to try and comply with emissions. 03-04 is good then 05-07 had bad pistons? @AH64ID was talking about it. This way it's pre emissions and has 4doors. 

I often wonder if I get something like a suburban or something big and put a cummins in it, doesn't matter the year, if it had to pass emissions, how would they go about it. Would they go by the make model or the engine that's in it, or would they just say it is illegal to have one now, that's been modified because we can't test it. 

[Mopar1973Man]

1 minute ago, Dieselfuture said:

@AH64ID was talking about it. This way it's pre emissions and has 4doors. 

Yup. I cant remember exactly I think DPF and Urea was in 2012? (IIRC). My 06 is without EGR and all the emission stuff. It does have a in cylinder EGR event where the exhuast lobe is a shorten.

[Silverwolf2691]

9 minutes ago, Dieselfuture said:

I often wonder if I get something like a suburban or something big and put a cummins in it, doesn't matter the year, if it had to pass emissions, how would they go about it. Would they go by the make model or the engine that's in it, or would they just say it is illegal to have one now, that's been modified because we can't test it. 

 

Entirely depends on the state. I think CT has a provision for "kit cars" that are mostly exempt.. scratch that.. might be inspections I'm thinking of. CT is weird with emissions and safety inspections.. My 2001 I had one emissions go through flying colors with a dual exhaust, 2 years later nope cant have that, then last year it wasn't the highway speed dyno test, it was a snap test. Those were for 3500 on up trucks.

 

Dig into what the power stroke excursion gets done for emissions. It might be truck snap test, might be the OBDII check. At least for CT...  

[AH64ID]

1 hour ago, Dieselfuture said:

I'd love to have a 4th or even 5th gen, but the only way I'd buy one if it was deleted or I would do it. I think sooner than later they will push for having all states to pass emissions so if that happens I would want nothing to do with it. I'm keeping my 2nd gen forever even if I get a nicer one with real 4 doors plus my kid said I'll have to give it to him when he grows up, that's if it doesn't rot sway by then 

I was thinking about a 3rd gen early models before they changed piston design to try and comply with emissions. 03-04 is good then 05-07 had bad pistons? @AH64ID was talking about it. This way it's pre emissions and has 4doors. 

I often wonder if I get something like a suburban or something big and put a cummins in it, doesn't matter the year, if it had to pass emissions, how would they go about it. Would they go by the make model or the engine that's in it, or would they just say it is illegal to have one now, that's been modified because we can't test it. 

 

5th gen's aren't out yet in the HD trucks. The 19+ is a 4.5 gen. 

 

The 13+ emissions aren't anything to be afraid of. Good fuel economy, great power, and very few issues associated with them. I went from a decently modified (turbo/cam/injectors/custom tune) to a bone stock '18. The '18 generally  gets ± 5% of the fuel economy, pulls the same grades at the same speed, and is a better towing setup all around. When my engine warranty is up, 3/36 expired today, I may do a small tune but the emissions will stay intact. 

 

04.5-07 5.9 pistons are of the non-reentrant design and arguable the weakest piston ever used in a ISB motor. 

 

 

1 hour ago, Mopar1973Man said:

Yup. I cant remember exactly I think DPF and Urea was in 2012? (IIRC). My 06 is without EGR and all the emission stuff. It does have a in cylinder EGR event where the exhuast lobe is a shorten.

 

In addition to the cam, which was also used on 03-04 trucks, the pistons, turbo, and ignition timing all work to create the in-cylinder EGR. Looking back and knowing what I do now about the in-cylinder EGR I think Cummins would have been better off to just put an external EGR on it. Similar to how meeting 2010 emissions in 2007.5 was good on paper and marketing but it wasn't great for the motor. I changed the tuning, cam, turbo, and lastly pistons. I didn't lose the full in-cylinder EGR effect and excess soot in the oil until the pistons were changed. 

 

UREA was first utilized on the MY13 pickups and MY10 C&C trucks. 

[Sycostang67]

I've got my eye on a 2003 with 194k miles, 4 door long bed with a 6spd.  Looks clean and stock in the pics, guy is asking a bit much at $22k though.  I'll have to double check with the wife tonight first to make sure she was even serious before I make calls and tick her off.  

[Me78569]

I keep standing on the same soapbox, I think it's nutso to pay high dollar for such high mileage.    the used market is crazy right now.   

 

by 194k miles there is so much that needed to be replaced and even if it was replaced, what was it replaced with?  was it done correct?  I don't care how good the engine is it is still wrapped around things that wear out.  Plastic on the dash, hinges in the glove box, seat wear, wiring in the engine bay being heat cycled, bushings, etc etc etc.  these are all things that have nothing to do with a reliable engine, but do have a lot to do with the how the truck moves down the road.

 

approaching 50k on my 2018 and so far so good, not 1 issue so far.    emissions have gotten a lot better, Def is cheap compared to other things we spend on the trucks.   I think I have put ~30 gallons of def in so far.  

 

 

This isn't to say everyone should go new, but I think signficant thought should go into our preconceived notion of "new is bad because x,y,z"   

 

 

 

[Silverwolf2691]

3 hours ago, Me78569 said:

by 194k miles there is so much that needed to be replaced and even if it was replaced, what was it replaced with?  was it done correct?  I don't care how good the engine is it is still wrapped around things that wear out.  Plastic on the dash, hinges in the glove box, seat wear, wiring in the engine bay being heat cycled, bushings, etc etc etc.  these are all things that have nothing to do with a reliable engine, but do have a lot to do with the how the truck moves down the road.

 

Agreed. 

 

3 hours ago, Me78569 said:

approaching 50k on my 2018 and so far so good, not 1 issue so far.    emissions have gotten a lot better, Def is cheap compared to other things we spend on the trucks.   I think I have put ~30 gallons of def in so far. 

 

Lucky.... My 2019 has been a bit of a pain. Mostly with comfort and drivability. Body mount TSB, HVAC TSB that involved replacing the entire heater box, and a vibration that wont go away, radio and amp replaced, window motor replaced. Actually been without my 2019 for over 30 days now for just this visit. Total time at dealer is 85 days now. Can't lemon law it because of mileage. Still don't know what to do next with it

 

Also agree on the emissions, haven't had to do a required blowout drive for the DPF, but I've only put 7k on it since last September (bought it used with 23k on it). Drained the tank from when I bought it then only put one jug of DEF in for refill. Just wish that the fuel economy numbers were better than my second gen, especially when deleted these trucks can get mid 20s on the highway.. 

 

3 hours ago, Me78569 said:

This isn't to say everyone should go new, but I think signficant thought should go into our preconceived notion of "new is bad because x,y,z" 

 

If you look around the new truck forums, even the new trucks have issues right off the line. Vibrations, fit and finish issues, glitter bomb injection pumps.. But buying new eliminates a lot of ambiguity when it come to the history of a vehicle. There's also a lot of "change is bad/new is bad" in the automotive world.    

[Sycostang67]

That's a valid point, used vehicle prices are ridiculous right now.  I have also been thinking of just putting some more money into my 01.  It's due for injectors and I wouldn't mind upgrading the turbo.  I do still enjoy driving it but the clearcoat is finally letting go and that's depressing to see.  I could probably save the doors but the roof is to far gone and the hood is getting a tad spotty.  

[Mopar1973Man]

Sad to hear. But it is repairable.

Edited July 24, 2021 by JAG1

[Dieselfuture]

48 minutes ago, Sycostang67 said:

I do still enjoy driving it but the clearcoat is finally letting go and that's depressing to see.  I could probably save the doors but the roof is to far gone and the hood is getting a tad spotty.  

Im glad I never cared for looks, I like the fact I can do pretty much most of the work on it and it's still pretty dependable.

[dripley]

I bought mine new in 01 and was tickled to death to have a new truck. She has treated me well over the 20 years I have had her and deserves a make over. I have let a lot of the exterior looks just take there toll over the years but hope to bring some of that back after retirement. After every where we have gone together she deserves a face lift. While having another new truck is tempting, 6 years of payments is not. I remember the sticker shock I went thru back then. $35k 

Edited July 24, 2021 by dripley

[Silverwolf2691]

@dripley My 19 was double that.. 

[Dieselfuture]

9 minutes ago, Silverwolf2691 said:

@dripley My 19 was double that.. 

Inflation, it's only going to get worse with crappier quality

[IBMobile]

I'm keeping mine; it does what I want which is pull the 5th wheel.   Since October 2019 : Dynamic stage 2 trans, 4 new Michelins, paint and body work, new LMC dash, new speakers and amp, bed rail covers and tie downs, and a Pacbrake.  I bought it used in 04 for $24k with just over 28K miles. It now has 123K.  

[01cummins4ever]

1 hour ago, Dieselfuture said:

Inflation, it's only going to get worse with crappier quality

And just think, $100,000 sticker price for the average diesel is just around the corner, Although some of the high end trim levels are pushing that figure

 

22k is what I gave for my 01 in January of 03, it came with a whopping 20k miles and a warranty along with hail damage , 350k later it’s got more hail damage and a few dings 

[JAG1]

IBMobile  had the trans built so well. it's like driving an expensive piece of equipment.

 

I drove my 1st gen as a DD for almost 22 years. I've had my 02 since 06 and my 01 for 3 yrs now. There's no way I would get a newer truck. 240k on the 01 is nothing when it's been properly worked on with better aftermarket parts and better workmanship thanks to what this site has taught me. My 02 only has 107K on it now. To get a new truck would be a down grade for me (just my opinion) since I like buying stocks and funds every quarter that keep making me money. It's cool to watch money grow. 

Edited July 24, 2021 by JAG1