WHIRRRR?

[Tbird9140]

OK guys, thanks for all the suggestions.  This week when I have a bit of time, I will check the turbo for play and the harmonic balancer.  I didn't notice the fenders being close to any boots and I did not notice any distorted rubber mushed or sticking out as a result of oil contamination.  While I don't have the crankcase vent mod, my blowby is routed down from the canister to the back of the engine underneath.  As I don't take the truck off-road, I don't see any extreme grades so this setup has worked for me.  Please keep in mind however that I ONLY hear the noise as the rpms DROP after taking my foot off the accelerator.  Any suggestions that would create a noiseother than during this time is not likely to be my problem.

Regarding the turbo,  when I get a few dollars together, I was planing on changing out both the turbo and injectors.  I am not trying to produce a drag truck, but would like a bit more torque/horsepower when pulling a loaded car trailer up a 5 mile 6% grade in the Rocky Mountains.  I was thinking something like +75-100 Hp injectors,  and a new turbo.  I some time ago I overhauled the tranny to twin disc, so I was not planning on changing anything there - maybe adding a trans temp sender.  Does any of you have a turbo/injector recommendation which meets my goals and has been reliable for you. 

[Mopar1973Man]

3 minutes ago, Tbird9140 said:

While I don't have the crankcase vent mod, my blowby is routed down from the canister to the back of the engine underneath. 

 

I'm going to assume just with rubber heater hose? Be aware I've seen a few people broke down from the hose kinking shut and then eith blowing out the tappet cover gasket or crank seals. This is one reason I don't use any rubber hose for vent pipe. If your in a winter area where its cold it can and will freeze shut from blowing vapor depending on how far back you vent goes. Again I've seen a guy that extended back past the bellhousing and the tip of the hose froze shut on him blowing out seal/gasket. That's why the design was not only for offroad but to keep the end from plugging or freezing shut. Just food for thought.

7 minutes ago, Tbird9140 said:

I ONLY hear the noise as the rpms DROP after taking my foot off the accelerator.

 

Few other thoughts. Like on manuals the shaft can move forward and back a bit causing a whine noise in a wore out trans. This could happen possibly on a auto too. 4WD? transfer case is the same thing. Drive line like someone else mention earlier. Drive line is a bit tricky to spot issues I would suggest pulling the shaft to check u-joints if there is any shaft load it will feel tight and fine. Removed you can check and feel for gritty movement or looseness. My thought place me at a shaft or something sliding back against deceleration and running on a bad bearing or something. Have you check the fluids to look for any glitter or discoloration? 

[JAG1]

The fender (sharp edge) is on the driver side looking up from underneath. Kind of close to the window washer pump or there abouts. Look along side the boot there.

[Tractorman]

On 8/27/2021 at 7:55 AM, Tbird9140 said:

The noise starts up loud and trails off as truck coasts slower, ceasing when the rpms bottom out.

 

It may help to pinpoint the noise source by trying this road test:

 

*  Lock out the overdrive and accelerate the truck to 2000 rpm in third gear.   Take your foot off of the throttle and observe the noise.

 

*  Lock the transmission into second gear and repeat the test.

 

*  Lock the transmission into first gear and repeat the test.

 

Does the whirring noise sound about the same in each test?  If it does, then it would seem that road speed is not relevant.  This would rule out things like driveshaft, transfer case and differential.

 

When I have difficult problems to diagnose, I try to be very specific with my methods of testing and reporting the results.  You have mentioned that the noise is heard when decelerating, but you did not say a specific rpm when the deceleration starts or a specific rpm when the noise quits.  

 

Specific detail from you may help pinpoint the cause of the whirring noise you are experiencing.

 

- John

[Great work!]

Check all the exhaust and turbo flanges bolts and nuts are tight. Check the fan water pump alternator bearings for noise or wobble with the belt off.

[Mopar1973Man]

1 hour ago, Great work! said:

Check all the exhaust and turbo flanges bolts and nuts are tight. Check the fan water pump alternator bearings for noise or wobble with the belt off.

Just pull the belt to take tension off the pulleys then you can check them all. Surprisingly how much belt tension will hide bad bearings most common for me seems to be the A/C pulley bearings.

[Tbird9140]

Sorry it has taken me so long to get back to all you guys who have tried to help me with this noisy issue.  The very night I solved this problem I was scheduled to drive the truck to the West Coast and pick up a classic car I had in storage.  With packing, traveling and other issues with the truck during the trip of some 5000 miles (See 911 Forum for these headaches) I just haven't thought much about responding to an already solved problem.  Anyway, like most issues the simplest solution is frequently the best solution.

 

As it turns out, neither the wheel bearings, balancers, intake hoses, or U joints had any thing to do with my loud sounding noise.  Remember,  it only appeared when I decelerated, and the more aggressive the acceleration when decelerating the louder the WHIRRR.  Following some suggestions I also removed the rubber air intake tube to the turbo but could find absolutely no play up or down, or side to side of the turbo shaft.  The local diesel pickup repair shops were all too busy to look at my truck, so on an off chance I stopped by the Kenworth dealership.  The took pity upon me and let one of their mechanics do a 5 minute ride-along.  He grinned when he heard the loud noise after less than a block in the truck.  When we returned to the Kenworth repair bays he asked me to pop the hood.  In less than 30 seconds he called me over and said "there's your problem"  Anyway, with all the work that I have recently done on the truck, including replacing the pan gasket,  I apparently inadvertently loosened the bolts that held the exhaust flange to the back of the turbo. (I am pretty sure I did not wrench-loosen these) My recent trips to Chicago, et al, had cause the bolts to  completely back off and fall out hence allowing the exhaust flange and exhaust pipe to move back about a 1/2 inch from the turbo - most of the gap being at the bottom where it was harder to see. Apparently, as it was explained to me, when you decelerate the waste-gate purges the turbo of unwanted air by channeling it out the exhaust.  With the higher exhaust gas pressure and the gap between the flange and the turbo, it created a situation like blowing through old style whistle to create a sound.  Guess the truck was only trying to get my attention.   Anyway two bolts and 15 minutes later the mechanic had "silenced" my truck! (Not that you can ever silence a Cummins 5.9)  I feel pretty stupid not finding the source of the noise, but in my defense, the flange gap was mostly visible from underneath the truck, and further it was pretty much impossible create the noise from inside the cab and simultaneously be under the hood to see where it was coming from..

 

I am now faced with another possible challenge that I would appreciate any thoughts you guys might have.  My 2000, 4wd, auto, 3500 now has 340,000 miles on it. I have owned the truck from about 200,000 miles. I have pretty much babied it since I owned it.  (I don't think it has ever seen 3000 rpms)  I do feel, however, especially on this last trip, that it has lost some of its towing power.  The stock turbo appears to have no shaft wear movement and the truck used only two quarts of oil for the entire 5000 mile trip. (Pretty good huh, for an old horse?) An associate has offered me a set of slightly used (approx. 500 miles) DPT(?) +75 injectors for my truck for $500.  I looked it up and the retail for the injectors was approximately $800.  Would this be a reasonable investment for me to make on the truck?  Is the price for the injectors fair?  Would the stock turbo provide adequate boost to take advantage of the larger than stock injectors?  Some forum responders have commented that my existing turbo boost seems a bit low (See comments in other replies of the 2nd Gen forum), but I understand that turbos for auto, 4wd, one ton Rams were set up originally a bit lower that stick and 2wd units.  In any case, will I need to replace my stock Holset HX35(?) turbo, and if so, with what?  Finally some local guys have suggested that adding performance items to a 340K motor is a waste of money - but the 5.9 does seem to be still running OK.  Any thoughts??  Thanks for all your help.

[Stanley]

I wouldn't buy used injectors for 500$....

 

DAP has just about any size you could want for 600$ new, with your cores obviously. I'm a fan of the super bee and super bee special turbos but they might be a little big for you. Tons of options on turbos, I'm sure someone with a smaller setup will chime in with some good combo specs. 

[Mopar1973Man]

Injector wise I would think about anything between +50 HP and +150 HP without much additional mods. Highly suggested to have a Quadzilla tuner. Now when doing custom injectors you'll get them flow matched and pop tested with tight tolerance. Like my current set are really custom, +150 HP injectors (7 x 0.010) popped at 320 bar which is +10 bar over stock or +15 bar than most general injectors custom made. This aided in the fact of my 28.04 MPG high mark.

 

I look at it this way they already built the 1,000 HP engines. How about trying to build the 30 MPG engine that is still better power than stock? Have your cake and eat it too!

[Dieselfuture]

I would not run anything bigger then rv275 injectors without additional mods. At minimum you'll want a boost fooler. Best thing would be quadzilla and possibly 7x10 (150hp) you can do it but I would say get 62/68/12 to go with that, then you'll be set. Problem is where do you stop? ... Heads studs, building up tranny, etc. If you're just using it as dd and don't want to spend a fortune I'd just go with RVs and boost fooler, if you want to spend money leave xh35 alone and go tweens, be a nice towing set up with solid 500hp or so. 

Ether way I would not get used injectors with unknown condition pop pressure for 500, 200 maybe and still a lot of work just to try and find out it runs hot and smokey now. 

[Mopar1973Man]

It's true RV275s are pretty mild and could be used without any mods. But I typically suggest a minimum of +50 HP injectors being at least you can have them pop tested and flow matched.

[Dieselfuture]

2 hours ago, Mopar1973Man said:

It's true RV275s are pretty mild and could be used without any mods. But I typically suggest a minimum of +50 HP injectors being at least you can have them pop tested and flow matched.

Yeah I see your point, I'm sure dap can do the same for RVs if you asked them. I suppose it may cost extra then just getting the 50hp right of way. I honestly haven't looked at prices lately 

[Tbird9140]

Thanks Dieselfuture and Mopar1973Man for giving me some ideas for getting a bit more power from my 2000 Ram 1tn.  I am a bit confused however as to the best course of action.  I will show my ignorance of the situation by asking a couple of followup questions.  First of all, I understand that no matter what upgrades I do to the truck, I should probably start with a boost fooler (programmer?)  Everyone seems to recommend the Quadzilla Adrenaline.  Right so far?  With regard to upgraded injectors, I hear RV275 thru +150 hp injectors.  Confusing to me as RV275 are rated at only +40 hp which gives me quite  a range of options.  Do I understand from Mopar1973Man that RV275 injectors are not typically pop tested and flow matched? I do have A column gauges (fuel pressure, EGT and boost)  With only the mild RV275s would the Quadzilla still be desirable?  Dieselfuture mentions the desirability of getting 62/68/12.  I am not clear on what this means.  Finally Dieselfuture also says "if you want to spend money,leave the HX35 alone and go with tweens"  Again I am not clear on what "tweens" means.  Two turbos?

My truck is pretty stock with only 5 inch exhaust, K&N air filter, Airdog Raptor lift pump, twin disc transmission and Big Line Kit aftermarket additions.  While I am not sure, having bought the truck used, I suspect that I am running with the original injectors at 340K miles.  Therefore I am not sure of the condition of the injectors but I suspect that I am currently not getting more than 200 hp from the setup.  When I pull a long grade towing a car trailer, I notice a quickly escalating EGT to 1300 or so and a lack of power.  I'm not trying to make a drag truck out of my rig, but having said that, what is your guys most cost effective suggestion for me to develop say, a reliable 350-400 hp?  Any thoughts would me appreciated.

[wil440]

My truck as far as I know is on stock injectors and turbo and injectors are well ready to be replaced, my warm load is around 4 to 6 on the quad and jumping around quite a bit.

 

I do have a mechanical lift pump and a BHAF ( and for the record you need to bin the K&N)

 

Anyway to the point,  I fitted a quad maybe a year or so ago. I tow minimum 7000lbs most always and regular higher my EGT's are never above 1100f and mostly around 900F on good grades, flat motorway i'm 500 to 800, I do run larger than stock tyres though.

Before the quad I would have sold it and gone back to using my 3500 Gas 5.9 as it was better, more refined and towed better and was faster, after the quad whole different ball game, I haven't messed with building tunes as I do not have time I just bought 2 off of here one DD and one towing, the towing tune is the one I use always whether towing or not, I do not need or want any more power I'm not sure what the HP is but my truck just gets up and goes and the more load is on it the more it wants to go all with low EGT

 

Get a quad first and then if it's not enough after finding a good tune then go for it

 

 

 

 

[Stanley]

You can get just a boost fooler module - plug and play - for pretty cheap.

 

Tweets aka twins/ twin turbos/ one big turbo and one small turbo. If you tow alot I highly recommend it, I guess either way it's a good choice for twins...

 

62/68/12 is turbo size. 

62mm compressor inlet

68mm turbine outlet 

12mm exhaust housing size

Anything bigger than a 62mm your kinda stepping into a different class so to speak. More power more mods and sometimes not towing friendly if not correctly spec'd out. 

 

I would also second the suggestion of a 62/68/12 and 90 hp or 125's with quadzilla programmer. Of you didn't have exhaust I'd recommend 4in but since you already have 5in it would be silly to spend the extra to change.

 

 If you have the funds go twins and studs and add to list and maybe slightly bigger injectors. 

 

[Dieselfuture]

3 hours ago, Tbird9140 said:

With only the mild RV275s would the Quadzilla still be desirable?  Dieselfuture mentions the desirability of getting 62/68/12.  I am not clear on what this means.  Finally Dieselfuture also says "if you want to spend money,leave the HX35 alone and go with tweens"  Again I am not clear on what "tweens" means.  Two turbos

Quad is a great investment for a vp44 motor, can't really go wrong on that decision. If you get quad and 62/68/12 or similar get 150 hp vco poped at 320 bar, DAP does a good job at  that, that's where I got most of my stuff. Be specific if you do, not everyone wants higher pop pressure. Anything less then 7x10 (150hp) injectors with 62/68/12 is a waste and you'll be going to them later. As for getting bigger turbo you can still use it with compounds (twins) or you can go straight to compounds now and use original hx35 as primary and a bigger one for secondary will save some money on not buying 2 turbos. Lots of options that's why I said depending on what you want and how much you want to spend. Quad will be your best friend tuning things in with either set up after you'll figure out how to use it which is a topic on itself.

[Silverwolf2691]

I'll offer my opinion too, 350-400 horse is doable with a Quad and injectors.

 

If you are staying towards the small end of the range id say a quad/7x009s(100s area)/new turbo. Options would be a hybrid hx35/40 like @Mopar1973Man has, a k27 (maybe) or the g-xe 57/65/12, he351w 60/60/12, or even an he351cw 60/60/9 (if you're up for some fabrication).

 

If you want to go toward the big end id say Quad/7x010s(150s)/new turbo, options being a 62/65/12, 62/68/12, a worked over hx35 for 62/67/12 but the hx is an old design and there are better out there. The 65 will spool lower in the power band while the the 68 will flow better up top and might take a smidgen longer to spool. 

 

Personally, unless you are racing or pulling grades often, I'd go with the 62/65/12 with 150s. You can turn the power down with the Quad, and if you get the crazy idea of spanking a (insert car here), you have a capable turbo and enough fuel overhead to play at full power.

 

@Stanley is right as well, once you cross above a 63mm turbo, you start getting not towing friendly, too big to spool, more parts to make everything happy.

 

At 350-400hp I wouldn't start thinking about twins, unless you live really high up and even then its questionable. Above 500 is when people start thinking about twins to tow.    

[Mopar1973Man]

Now being I've done my first tune job for a fellow forum member @Sycostang67. I did learn from his truck that final gear is a huge impact. So in his setup he's got 3.55 gears but 295/70 R17 which makes final ratio 3.38. Now the impact was much higher EGTs, then cruising RPM is too low at barely 1500 to 1600 at 65 MPH. After tuning and teaching him to keep RPMs up it runs better. With the Quad maxed out it pulls hard and fast. 

 

Then I gave @Sycostang67 a ride in The Beast whole different animal being the final ratio is 3.69. My EGTs are even lower for the same cruising speed.. in a nutshell I'm lower engine load by nearly half at cruising.. This will impact where you at in the timing curve. So too low in RPM it will  tend to spend too much time retaded constantly trying to get to a cruise level.. I'm even with larger injectors in Beast and starting out more retarded in my tune. (13 degrees at 1500) but still reach cruise timing easy (20 degrees at 2k RPM). Again gear ratio makes or breaks this.

 

I will admit after 20 mile ride to New Meadows and back I was in the passenger seat getting him to do things like slow down and accelerate up. Watching retard and advance states and how much. I'll admit I managed to shave off enough to keep the EGTs down it still get close or past 1200F EGTs. Cleaned up the smoke compared to the old Edge Juice had.

Edited October 19, 2021 by Mopar1973Man

[Sycostang67]

No kidding, Mike got me looking at stock sized tires again.  The difference between the trucks just due to the tire size was pretty significant.  Mikes engine load at 65mph was 6-9% while mine was 40+ at the same speed.  Since my truck is now mostly a tow rig and not my daily I should probably get it to perform as such.  

[Mopar1973Man]

Just like I been saying all a long rotational mass and final ratio can make or break a good tune. @Sycostang67 seriously I used to look for trucks like you to street race and always would win because I could out power them easy. With good final ratio near 3.73 and low rotational mass I can out accelerate lifted trucks on oversized tires. Fun part is people think stock tires, stock power. Funny when these same people are still behind me. Simply I've got much less in losses. Just like sycostang said his engine load is much higher just to keep rolling. Lower efficiency.