Teardown and Rebuild

[Mopar1973Man]

I could plug in at home but quit doing that. Great to have quick heat but always in the field with minus weather in the winter. Never have power in the field for plugging in. I've never had an issue starting or rough starts. Has to do with the injectors how fine you get the fuel atomized and grid heater function. Also I'm Not even using grid heaters yet. Not cold enough yet.

Edited December 1, 2016 by Mopar1973Man

[01cummins4ever]

like @Mopar1973Man states is one reason, If their is a problem with grid heating it can be unnoticed if plugging in all the time, these truck should be able to start at negative zero with grid heater alone, Iv only had to service mine once when I was getting week starts and all it took was tightening and cleaning connections. These days it is getting plugged in if I think its going to get below zero overnight but even then its just about an hour before start up, With the price of electricity who can afford  to leave it plugged in

[CSM]

5 hours ago, TFaoro said:

It has to be the injectors. It would start fine with the 125's, but now that it has 300's it doesn't like the cold without a grid heater. It's even got higher than stock compression pistons. (I think 17.3:1 but not positive)

 

Alll cranking and idling timing is left alone by the quad. 

 

I agree with this assessment.  Your droplet size has to be huge. Aren't you also running lower compression pistons?  

 

My magic rube fix? A huge compressed air tank in the bed, and start the engine on straight 90psi compressed air!  

 

You can fill the tank from a bleed line going from the turbos to the tank with a check valve.  

Edited December 1, 2016 by CSM

[Me78569]

Agree'd

 

 

Fix the grids and call it a day

 

 

[CSM]

Just now, Me78569 said:

Agree'd

 

 

Fix the grids and call it a day

 

I vote compressed air and lots of big flapper check valves and plumbing.  

[Me78569]

 

 

[CSM]

2 minutes ago, Me78569 said:

 

 

Thats a compressed air starter...  And those are awesome. However, I am talking a bypass of his turbos, for straight 90 psi air on initial crank!  Think Boost Caboose from the Roadkill thats gonna air tomorrow!  

[Me78569]

oooooo.

 

[notlimah]

I agree with you guys. I think the truck should start in negative temps on just grid heater alone. I think mine would, although we never get that cold enough to test it. Only time mine gets mad is starting cold without grids/plugged.

 

Otherwise I'm going to plug in whenever I can when the temps get low. No point in starting an extra cold engine when I could've warned it up. 

 

If you're wondering about electricity costs, check out dauntless' thread (who by the way, has some of the best threads on CF so if you have a chance read through some!) and see that he found its really not that bad, especially when combined with a timer.

[CSM]

18 minutes ago, notlimah said:

I agree with you guys. I think the truck should start in negative temps on just grid heater alone. I think mine would, although we never get that cold enough to test it. Only time mine gets mad is starting cold without grids/plugged.

 

Otherwise I'm going to plug in whenever I can when the temps get low. No point in starting an extra cold engine when I could've warned it up. 

 

If you're wondering about electricity costs, check out dauntless' thread (who by the way, has some of the best threads on CF so if you have a chance read through some!) and see that he found its really not that bad, especially when combined with a timer.

 

The ultimate heater would be a Webasto.  We used these on big V12 Cats in remote well off grid locations.  It is a diesel fueled coolant heater.  

 

https://www.webasto.com/us/markets-products/light-duty-vehicles/genuine-webasto/

[dripley]

2 hours ago, 01cummins4ever said:

like @Mopar1973Man states is one reason, If their is a problem with grid heating it can be unnoticed if plugging in all the time, these truck should be able to start at negative zero with grid heater alone, Iv only had to service mine once when I was getting week starts and all it took was tightening and cleaning connections. These days it is getting plugged in if I think its going to get below zero overnight but even then its just about an hour before start up, With the price of electricity who can afford  to leave it plugged in

my grids are disconnected at the moment. When the temps get to near 20 I plug it in on a timer that comes on about 1.5 hours before I leave and works fine. No timer and it stays on all night. Wasted power bill.

[TFaoro]

1 hour ago, CSM said:

 

I agree with this assessment.  Your droplet size has to be huge. Aren't you also running lower compression pistons?  

 

My magic rube fix? A huge compressed air tank in the bed, and start the engine on straight 90psi compressed air!  

 

You can fill the tank from a bleed line going from the turbos to the tank with a check valve.  

Yup, droplets are too big. That's why it'll dump white smoke at anything under 50* and doesn't stop until it builds heat. Then it just has a black haze  

 

The pistons are higher compression. Checked with the engine builder  

 

I'm not sure if I could keep the head on at 90... maybe 65!

 

On a side note, it's supposed to get down to 9*F next week, so I'll have to get this done asap. I'm sure it would start, but my neighbors wouldn't appreciate it!

[leathermaneod]

Just something to keep in mind if using a timer or only plugging for an hour or so, my trucks coolant temp didn't get above 90° even after being plugged in all night IIRC. Maybe a little over 100°, but the point is, if your in really cold weather, plugging in for an hour, or even a few hours doesn't do a whole lot. Just my opinion and findings of course. 

[dripley]

I plugged mine in a good bit last winter but never saw temps that high. Mine was usually in the 60* to 70* range. Started great even in the teens.  I let it  come on about 2 hours before leaving. Worked great for me.

[notlimah]

Definitely agree that plugging in for an hour or even 2 isn't going to do you as good. I'd suggest using 3 hours if using a timer. Some data that Dauntless found is that over 3 hours, the gains are marginal at best and really not worth it.

 

From his thread...

 

"At first glance, it looks pretty impressive. The block heater can get temps up to nearly 140? Sweet! Not quite. It was nearly 55 degrees out by the end of the test, hardly block heater weather. We have to remove the ambient temperature from the equation to get a real idea of heater performance.
 

This the same data, reformatted to show coolant temperature rise relative to ambient temperature instead of the absolute values. Looking at the numbers this way, we see the heater is capable of raising coolant temp by about 85 degrees above ambient, What's interesting is half of that temp rise occurs in the first 45 minutes of operation.

Common sense would suggest the heater's temp rise is a diminishing returns scenario, and this both confirms and defines those diminishing returns. A couple years ago, I had settled on a 3-hour prewarm period. I chose this amount of time because that was where I could no longer perceive changes in starting behavior or time-to-operating-temp in my normal operation of the truck. While my heater's effectiveness was compromised by a defective thermostat, allowing convection currents to move the warm coolant into the radiator while the heater was running, a 3-hour prewarm period looks to be about ideal, in my opinion. It gives you about 85% of the total temperature rise, where a 4-hour prewarm only brings you to 89%. 5 hours will get you to 93%, and starting at hour 6, we can see the delta drop radically down to a virtually non-existant 1 degree per hour until it drops to zero after 7.5 hours of runtime.

Alternatively, a 2-hour prewarm period would give you 75% of the temp rise, and even a 1-hour prewarm period will still give you nearly 60%. Use this information to tailor your prewarm period to your specific needs. If you're out in BFE in the Klondike and it's -60F, you probably want the full 8 hours even though the last 4 are pretty inefficient, from a dollars-to-degrees perspective."

 

 

[TFaoro]

The block heater discussion is very interesting! I think this last week it was around 30* when I was at home, and my engine temp was 120* after being plugged in for 5 or six hours. It was also in the shop, so it make sense with no wind it would be slightly higher than the 85 quoted above. 

 

Here's a video of what I'm talking about in the mornings. I plan to pick up new solenoids after class today. 

 

[dripley]

My truck will start fine in 30 to 40 degree weather with no help so 60 to 70 on a 20* day is just gravy. I just dont see any need to get it up to 80 or 90 or even higher.   

[AH64ID]

With a winter front installed I found that 90 minutes was optimal when on a timer. After that the cost benefit wasn't there. I get about 90% of the temp rise in 90 minutes.

 

Without a winter front all bets are off. 

[notlimah]

1 hour ago, AH64ID said:

With a winter front installed I found that 90 minutes was optimal when on a timer. After that the cost benefit wasn't there. I get about 90% of the temp rise in 90 minutes.

 

Without a winter front all bets are off. 

 

Yes I agree! I put together a make shift winter front. It's just 1/16th in plastic cut outs to fit into the grill area, much like many others have done. I can tell it's working because the my hood has a bigger dry spot on it the mornings I plug in.

Edited December 1, 2016 by notlimah

[dripley]

I have some winter fronts but dont use them alot unless I am somewhere where it stays cold. Even some of 20* weather overnight can turn into 50*+ weather in the pm here in the SE. When I blew my radiator I had them from a stretch of cold weather and that day turned into a 50* day. Of course I was pulling the 5th wheel up a 6% grade and dogging pretty hard. Forgot they were in. Sometimes you reap what sow.