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Filling oil filter when changing oil?

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3 minutes ago, AH64ID said:

@dripley that's still the best full flow you can run. It's quite the filter!

 

 

Well if I live long enough we can open the top end up again at 900k and see what that filter does on its own. Maybe we ought to shoot for 700k. Might still be breathing then. 

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That's a pretty blue filter

 

what kind is it?

 

I run the fleetguard StrataPore

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10 hours ago, GSP7 said:

That's a pretty blue filter

 

what kind is it?

 

I run the fleetguard StrataPore

 

Donaldson DBL7349. It's a 15µ absolute filter, vs the stratapore at 25µ absolute.

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Im wondering what the "µ" is on the factory filters then..

And what kind of effect does that have on oil pressure? Or is there no change when you put a finer filter in?

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5 minutes ago, 2000Ram2500 said:

Im wondering what the "µ" is on the factory filters then..

And what kind of effect does that have on oil pressure? Or is there no change when you put a finer filter in?

 

The OEM filter is 35µ absolute. 

 

If it's a quality filter, such as Donaldson Blue or Fleetguard Stratopore, then there is no restriction based on filtering ability. The restriction would come into play with a plugged filter. 

 

I know the Donaldson Blue's are also designed as extended drain interval filters. 

 

The only time I recommend an early oil filter change is when someone switches to quality synthetics with over 75K miles on the motor. This is due to the cleaning characteristics of quality synthetic oils. 

 

 

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21 hours ago, AH64ID said:

The only time I recommend an early oil filter change is when someone switches to quality synthetics with over 75K miles on the motor. This is due to the cleaning characteristics of quality synthetic oils. 

 

I hate to disagree... But there is no proof in this statement.

 

Like my truck, the head has been in service for 355k miles and when it was pulled off there was zero sludge or debris in the head just oil. So when the head was stood on it side for the entire night to drain the head was spotless. My truck has use petroleum oils since the beginning of time. Again no debris, sludge, etc. As I said there is no proof in this statement. (Other than the bits of valve seals)

 

So how do you clean something that is already clean for 355k miles?

 

DSCF4443.JPG

 

Again when I pull the tappet cover a year ago there was no sludge or debris found. 

Image result for mopar1973man tappet cover

Edited by Mopar1973Man

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7 minutes ago, Mopar1973Man said:

 

I hate to disagree... But there is no proof in this statement.

 

 

There is lots of proof in the statement, and has been for many many years. Just because something is true and occurs does not mean it occurs to most. Our own experiences are not absolute, and my not even be average. We need to look outside our own wheelhouse to see the whole picture. 

 

You have always had a good maintenance program and I am not surprised your motor is clean. That doesn't mean every motor is as clean with that many, or fewer miles. Without seeing the inside of every motor I make a general recommendation, it's likely overkill for most but the last thing we want is a plugged filter bypassing. 

 

Its similar to biodiesel plugging fuel filters. It’s a known occurrence when people start running bio, but that doesn’t mean everyone has the issue. 

 

Edited by AH64ID
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Ahh... So you admitting that petroleum oils won't exactly cause a dirty engine. This what I wanted to point out is too many make this false claim that synthetic is the only solution to clean engine. When the very same results can be produced with petroleum oils as well. 

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37 minutes ago, Mopar1973Man said:

Ahh... So you admitting that petroleum oils won't exactly cause a dirty engine. This what I wanted to point out is too many make this false claim that synthetic is the only solution to clean engine. When the very same results can be produced with petroleum oils as well. 

 

I don't think I ever said they petroleum oils always cause a dirty engine. It is known that when ran too long (miles or time), or out of appropriate temperature ranges that they are more prone to creating sludge in an engine. 

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Sludge is a byproduct of oxidation and contamination.  All oil can sludge merely because all oil can oxidize and become contaminated.  The rate of sludge build up largely depends largely on quality of oil, driving condition, and change intervals in relation to the oil type and quality.  Thats not overlooking the fact that a properly running engine will create less sludge too.

Simply put, change the oil more often and there will be less sludge.  Its really that simple...but most people are looking to simplify their life and fall for marketing gimmicks.

 

Edited by KATOOM
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21 hours ago, AH64ID said:

The only time I recommend an early oil filter change is when someone switches to quality synthetics with over 75K miles on the motor. This is due to the cleaning characteristics of quality synthetic oils. 

 

Very much so implied. Why would you have to change oil early if switching over to synthetics? Hmmm? 

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7 minutes ago, Mopar1973Man said:

 

Very much so implied. Why would you have to change oil early if switching over to synthetics? Hmmm? 

 

I didn't say to change the oil early.... I said I recommend an early oil filter change. Without knowing the status of the motor I cannot recommend a full synthetic OCI on a single filter. If you're cleaning a dirty motor the filter will plug sooner, so it won't last as long. A filter change is cheap insurance, and much better than a filter that goes into bypass mode. 

 

You can read it if you want to, but the reason the misnomer about synthetic causing leaks got spread for a reason. Synthetics clean dirty motors. 

 

No different than my correlation to using bio-diesel for the first time. 

 

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2 minutes ago, AH64ID said:

No different than my correlation to using bio-diesel for the first time. 

 

LOL.. Again... Another one a laugh at. biodiesel "cleaning ability" again first there has be something dirty in the tank. (Slime, algae,  or physical dirt etc.) I've not found any truth in that either. As manner of fact all the fuel tanks I've opened up and installed draw straws have been clean. Yes, I've installed a lot of FASS and AirDog systems locally. No truth in that claim either. Yes i've use Biodiesel from over on the Oregon side many times. Still change fuel filters at 60k miles. 

 

4 minutes ago, AH64ID said:

I said I recommend an early oil filter change.

 

Ok, Opps... I'll admit that one. :duh:

 

But still goes back there has to be something dirty inside the engine or sludge to have to change the filter early again... What I'm trying to point out is petroleum oils and fuels do not mean there is going to dirt, sludge or debris found. 

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Known issues... but you can look at it how ever you want to. It's very easy, and cheap, to do a little extra preventative maintenance so why spend so much energy fighting it?

 

There is plenty of truth to each of the statements. Things don't have to happen to you to be true. 

 

I've seen dirty fuel tanks and I've seen clean fuel tanks, far more clean than dirty but filters are cheap. 

 

Same thing with dirty motors... it's easier to be smart with filters than it is to open a tank/motor to verify.

Edited by AH64ID
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Your missing what I'm saying...

 

What I'm saying is just because petroleum products are used doesn't mean there are issues. 

 

Yes, your statements might have truths... But the fact is petroleum products are not the evil damaging products that create all these horrible sludge, and random problems. That's what I'm trying to get across. When a vehicle is taken care of it will last a long time even with petroleum products. Synthetics are a better oil I'm not going argue that. But today petroleum oils are not like back in the 1970's... 

 

 

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I'm not sure who called them evil damaging products. 

 

There are known potentials with all oil, more so with dino. Synthetic oils are known to reverse some of those potential issues... all I am saying is an extra filter if you change from one to the other isn't a bad idea. It's not going to be needed for most, but it's cheap insurance. 

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I too disagree with the statement that syn oil

On 10/16/2018 at 5:46 AM, AH64ID said:

 

Donaldson DBL7349. It's a 15µ absolute filter, vs the stratapore at 25µ absolute.

 

What does the  "µ "   stand for?  I googled and cant find the info

 

So a 15µ absolute filters finner particles than a 25µ absolute ?

 

 

.

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7 minutes ago, GSP7 said:

What does the  "µ "   stand for?  I googled and cant find the info?

Micron

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I'll admit your right extra filter change is no harm there. 

 

45 minutes ago, AH64ID said:

If you're cleaning a dirty motor the filter will plug sooner, so it won't last as long.

 

Yeah my own words, but first where did the dirty engine come from? :whistle2:

 

14 minutes ago, AH64ID said:

There are known potentials with all oil, more so with dino.

 

So with that statement, this potential issue can be found with synthetics too? 

 

Just chalk it up to as long as you keep the oil changed these "potential problems" are nill at best regardless if you use petroleum oil or synthetic. This is the only thing I want to point out. 

 

Also, I'm base my finding on all the hundreds of engines I've worked on from gasoline to diesel engine. Not just my own truck but all the trucks and cars even motorcycles even small engines. I've pulled the valve covers on and changed valve cover gaskets, adjusted valve lash, etc. remember I work on a lot of different vehicles and engines. 

 

In truth what you speak of @AH64ID is pure owner abuse where someone doesn't change oil or changes extremely late constantly. I've seen a few engines like this but extremely rare. The whole fact of finding an engine with sludge or debris from oil issues is extremely rare. 

 

Like the photos below I tend to watch what other shop mechanics run into... Yes, it does exist but first you must abuse the engine.

 

61k Oil Change Intervals are ok right?

 

Change your oil folks! Lease return...

 

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1 hour ago, GSP7 said:

I too disagree with the statement that syn oil

 

What does the  "µ "   stand for?  I googled and cant find the info

 

So a 15µ absolute filters finner particles than a 25µ absolute ?

 

 

.

 

As stated it is micron, or 1/1,000,000 of a meter. 

 

Yes a 15µ filter will catch finer particles than a 25µ filter. 

 

58 minutes ago, Mopar1973Man said:

Yeah my own words, but first where did the dirty engine come from? :whistle2:

IF you're engine has sludge/dirty then it will occur. If it doesn't, then no harm. 

 

Quote

 

So with that statement, this potential issue can be found with synthetics too? 

 

Yes, but it takes a LOT of neglect with synthetics. 

 

Quote

 

Just chalk it up to as long as you keep the oil changed these "potential problems" are nill at best regardless if you use petroleum oil or synthetic. This is the only thing I want to point out. 

 

For the most part, yes this is very true. You could run into issues with dino oil with modified engines, or if engine oil temps get too high. 

 

Quote

In truth what you speak of @AH64ID is pure owner abuse where someone doesn't change oil or changes extremely late constantly. I've seen a few engines like this but extremely rare. The whole fact of finding an engine with sludge or debris from oil issues is extremely rare. 

 

It's not always abuse, but with modern oils and filters it's moving more into the abuse catergory. 

 

Unless you consider modification abuse. 

 

I think the most common cause of sludge is going too long on oil, time wise, with acceptable mileage... such as 9 months and 3,000 miles; as well as short trips where the oil doesn't get to temp. 

 

Quote

Like the photos below I tend to watch what other shop mechanics run into... Yes, it does exist but first you must abuse the engine.

 

 

That's an extreme case! It doesn't have to get that far to cause issues. 

 

Many times the small amount of sludge buidup may be present, but not causing any issues. The issues arise with an oil change to a different oil, commonly synthetic, and it cleans up the sludge and seals that have dried up are now exposed to oil and leak. 

Edited by AH64ID
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7 hours ago, Mopar1973Man said:

Like the photos below I tend to watch what other shop mechanics run into... Yes, it does exist but first you must abuse the engine.

 

61k Oil Change Intervals are ok right?

 

Change your oil folks! Lease return...

 

 

I saw a chrysler 2.7 the guy let his kid drive around and he would give him some cash to change the oil every couple months. Well the kid never had the oil changed and spent it on who knows what. They estimated it to have about 30 or 40k miles on a single oil change, nothing added and no leaks in need of repair. And it seized the engine up solid.

The sludge was equally as bad as these pictures. It was so bad in fact that they actually had to replace the timing cover, valve covers, and oil pan because they couldnt even chip away at the sludge. It had turned most of its oil into sludge and basically ran itself dry because there wasnt enough to circulate through the system.

I never heard if it was conventional or synthetic oil... But it was bad. There was just a fraction of an inch of space between the sludge and timing chain. The valve cover sludge had a valvetrain imprint in it. 

 

7 hours ago, AH64ID said:

Many times the small amount of sludge buidup may be present, but not causing any issues. The issues arise with an oil change to a different oil, commonly synthetic, and it cleans up the sludge and seals that have dried up are now exposed to oil and leak. 

 

This is the more common way that someone will see problems, they buy a used car that was ran into the ground with cheap oil changes and the new owner decides to use synthetic on a car with thousands of miles whatever sludge or debris is left or stuck to the seals will get cleaned by the synthetic oil thus causing a leak. Its just the way it is.... I've never heard of it happening the other way around and there is not real set point at which you should never use synthetic its just a matter of each engines condition

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OOU.....

 

sludgewe.jpg

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