Quadzilla adrenaline for mpg's is it worth it?

[Dieselfuture]

21 hours ago, Threadzy said:

I like the Quad because I like pushing buttons. Just ask my wife! 

Hope you know what you doing

[Threadzy]

1 hour ago, Dieselfuture said:

Hope you know what you doing

Exactly! I’m pushing buttons when I’m only qualified to flick a switch! 

[Mopar1973Man]

Quadzilla isn't that hard. If you wanna cheat you can download any of the tunes that closely match what your doing then you can tweak the setting again. Quadzilla basically only work with two things.

1. Fuel
2. Timing

Nothing else. Fuel side is easy for most because you know if your too heavy of fuel you get smoke. Too light and its weak on power.

 

The timing is what pickles most peoples brain. Not like the old days looked in a book and it said to set you timing for 10 degrees BTDC with a timing light. Now no longer breaking out the timing light. We just grab the iQuad App and set it accordingly. I will mention I see a lot of people jumping for 15 to 16 degrees in the 1,500 realm it won't work. 1,500 should be slightly retarded being your cruise timing will stack on top giving back to your total timing. I suggest always starting with 13 degree in the 1,500 RPM. Better spool up and launching. If you going the wrong direction with timing your engine load will rise. (Either retarding or advancing). Over advancing I've see rising coolant temp and engine oil temp. Amount of flame front is on the cylinder walls will add to the coolant temp and oil temp. You can watch it on the iQuad app.

 

This why I won't suggest any canned tuner. How are you suppose to make a good tune if you basing the timing of your power off a stock map that has plus amount stack on top? For me it takes a very long time several tanks of fuel and studying numbers and performance to determine if timing is good or not. There is outside factors like cetane, winterized fuel and weather that still plays against. Quadzilla doesn't know my fuel up here is closer to 45 to 50 cetane. Then when it flips over to summer fuel cetane drop and timing shifts again. This was one of my personal battles with Edge Comp. Hence why I figured out the MPG mode on the high idle switch to gain back timing and improve MPG. Again Edge was stacking timing on top of stock timing that is another +4 degrees after the IAT dropped below +80*F. So now in the winter you ran around over advanced and wonder why the MPG fell out. So with the MPG mode of the switch I force the ECM to see 143*F and timing dropped. Now the Edge Comp advancement amount was more fitting. This when I did get my 27.2 MPG record. This being said I never wanna go back to canned tuners like Edge, Diablo, SuperChips, Smarty S-03, etc. Just always stacked on top of stock timing map. Doesn't make the timing correct for everyone's application. This is where the entire smoke problem came from because "canned tuners" didn't know the owner just dropped 35 inch wheels on 3.55 gears, and then installed 200 HP injectors with a fat single turbo. So how is Edge suppose to handle that? It can't, it a smoke bomb. This where Quadzilla can shine thru. You can adapt a bit to the add on and make things work. Change a fuel map to control smoke for daily driver. Up the timing to get more preheating of the fuel and ignition point. Nice deep retard to spool the turbo quickly. Again other tuners can't do it...

 

Bigger injectors need more timing. Like my truck 20 to 22 degrees at 2,000 RPM. Won't find that with my Edge Comp more like 14 to 16 degrees at 2,000 RPM. Still got my Edge Comp too.

Edited March 22, 2021 by Mopar1973Man

[Doubletrouble]

@Mopar1973Man, what kind of gains could I expect from an adrenaline on a basically stock engine? Eventually I will switch up to rv275's but want to go in stages as money allows. 

 Will the gauges on the adrenaline be enough for a while until I get the a-pillar trio?

 Does the adrenaline come with a device for display or will I need to aquire an old smart phone or tablet of some sort?

 Sorry for all the questions, I'm hoping the time will come soon to decide which way I want to go and I don't want to make a last minute hasty decision.

[LorenS]

The Adrenaline will certainly get you by until you acquire dedicated gauges, and yes you will need an old phone or tablet.  I like the phone method because I have a phone holder that mounts to my old GPS mount, so it can ride on the dashboard and be plugged in all the time.

I have basically a stock truck and like the Adrenaline.  When I turn up the CANbus (not tapping the wire) a little it's a noticeable improvement in performance, especially while towing.  I've never turned up the fuel very much and am still very happy with it. No smoke to speak of, maybe just when I stab the go pedal.

[wil440]

9 minutes ago, Doubletrouble said:

@Mopar1973Man, what kind of gains could I expect from an adrenaline on a basically stock engine? Eventually I will switch up to rv275's but want to go in stages as money allows. 

 Will the gauges on the adrenaline be enough for a while until I get the a-pillar trio?

 Does the adrenaline come with a device for display or will I need to aquire an old smart phone or tablet of some sort?

 Sorry for all the questions, I'm hoping the time will come soon to decide which way I want to go and I don't want to make a last minute hasty decision.

My truck is stock except for LP fuel system.

stock towing tune as downloaded now set on LVL7 is more than enough, ( think there are 10 lvls) my truck is auto so In LU either 3rd or OD it just goes and the higher the load the more it pulls, I also find 3rd LU doesn't drop out so much now it will stay in LU longer and lower rpms, EGR might go to around a 1000f when towing and pulling hard and truck and trailer is at 12k lbs  no smoke at all..... very happy with how it runs

I did think when I was running it on LVL 3 that LU was slipping but quad trans slippage gauge said not, engine was bucking and now I'm running it on lvl 7 it doesn't buck.

I'd guess a quad is the dogs with a manual trans

[Mopar1973Man]

26 minutes ago, Doubletrouble said:

@Mopar1973Man, what kind of gains could I expect from an adrenaline on a basically stock engine?

 

180 HP gain is what Quadzilla claims is possible with stock engine and just the stock injectors. 

26 minutes ago, Doubletrouble said:

I will switch up to rv275's but want to go in stages as money allows. 

I would skip the RV275s and move on to a +50 HP injectors that are flow matched and pop tested all with a narrow margin than running 6 random injectors. Remember RV275's are technical stock injectors yet. The ISB Cummins for motorhomes used those RV275 injectors for stock. Least when you step up to +50HP your now on a performance built injectors with more pintle lift, matched pressures and flows. 

 

26 minutes ago, Doubletrouble said:

Does the adrenaline come with a device for display or will I need to aquire an old smart phone or tablet of some sort?

Cell phone or cheap Android tablet. Personally, I like the analog gauges like ISSPro EV2. They do not rely on the stock sensors for accuracy. But the live data is helpful fo diagnosing issues. MAP sensor is accurate above about 25 PSI for me. It shows I can make 69 PSI of boost (Quad  Log) but actually only made 49 PSI of boost. Gauges will always be more accurate.  

 

8 minutes ago, wil440 said:

I did think when I was running it on LVL 3 that LU was slipping but quad trans slippage gauge said not, engine was bucking and now

Bucking is a sign of over advanced timing. This why the lower timing in the 1,500 realm so when you cruise state comes in you have to add on top of what is set for 1,500 timing say 13 degrees and cruise state is +4 degrees then that is a total of 17 degrees at cruise state at 1,500 which might state a mild bucking. Just imagine if some set it for 16 degrees at 1,500 and then stacked on +4 degrees for cruise state that is 20 degrees at 1,500 RPM's it will for sure buck! 

 

8 minutes ago, wil440 said:

I'd guess a quad is the dogs with a manual trans

Can be. Being I was able to spin through a Southbend single disc on the top end. Now with the Valair dual disc no problem. 

Edited March 22, 2021 by Mopar1973Man

[LorenS]

3 hours ago, Mopar1973Man said:

Just imagine if some set it for 16 degrees at 1,500 and then stacked on +4 degrees for cruise state that is 20 degrees at 1,500 RPM's it will for sure buck! 

This may be true at low engine load.  If you start at 16 and then set your Low PSI Timing Reduct (LPTR) to something reasonable, then above the Light Throttle Load Limit the Light Throttle Timing Advance (Cruise timing) is not used, and it will back the timing down below 16.  If you stab the throttle at 0 PSI and have the LPTR set to 5*, then I would think you'd be down to around 11 degrees, and as boost is built the timing will again advance.

[Silverwolf2691]

Just to add some info, @Doubletrouble I was going to the same route you are looking at for injectors but DAP was out of stock. They are a +40hp injector. Going to +50s isn't much larger of a jump from stock plus they have been matched and gone through by the builders. (like @Mopar1973Man said).

 

Before I got the Quadzilla, I ran an edge ez. it worked and you can drive it smoke free on level 3 (it's highest). But even before I got into the world of sled pulling, i thought it was enough power wise. but to be honest it wasn't the best. The turbo if you punched it from an idle kind of lagged even with an hx35, think it was flooding the turbo or similar to what MoparMan said, since the edge just added timing on top of factory, it pushed the timing too high to spool the turbo effectively. It also smoked quite a bit if you were under the turbo at speed.

 

My daily Quadzilla tune for the can bus fueling is really linear, and I have it set so that its nearly smoke free from a stop and it pulls like mad once it gets the turbo spooled. And at full tilt there's only a slight haze. The edge left a noticeable trail, and was a smoke show if under the turbo. I haven't refined my tune quite enough to be entirely smoke free, however..

 

Part of what sold me on this was when one of the members, @TFaoro I think, before he changed injection pumps was able to clean up +300hp? injectors (some on here nicknamed them firehose injectors, that's how big they were) and send his truck to emissions and pass with room to spare. (this was when v2 was still in development so my memory might be incorrect on this)

 

The other part was having the ability to store other type of tunes with different uses. I don't have many, just three, but after reading and rereading how certain things affect others it completely changes the truck. My sled pulling tune feels like it wants to tear the truck apart, or blow the tires off, when I play with it on the road but its a smoky mess and i live on the poor side of a rich town so I have the daily tune to keep passing power and low smoke as the priority. 3rd tune was a best guess at MoparMan's zero boost tune, but i'm not on the freeway very much so it still requires a lot of refinement. I did that to experiment and learn about the way things change when you adjust them. Going from flatland 10psi while cruising on the highway to 0-2 psi and maintaining speed even up some small hills really demonstrates the power and capability of the quadzilla. 

 

Edited March 22, 2021 by Silverwolf2691
incomplete thoughts

[Doubletrouble]

Not to mention the untapped potential of the Cummins itself. 

 Thanks for all that @Silverwolf2691. I'm very close to being on board. The technical part still intimidates me quite a bit but I suppose you can learn as you go and ask questions.

[Silverwolf2691]

@Doubletrouble, not a problem.

 

In all honesty, the hardest thing is trying to understand the quad without having it in your hands. I actually downloaded the app just to play on it and get a feel for where things were months before I actually bought the quad.

 

In regards to the technical part, asking questions is the one thing that you can do to help yourself. Personally I would rather annoy people with questions, than stay quiet and end up hurt/injured or have something break.

 

If you do end up getting a quad, take some time and follow the quadzilla guide posted in the articles and quadzilla power sub-forum I believe. Then experiment. You can get a feel for how the changes affect different aspects of the truck that way. Even if you download a tune off of here, you probably would still have to adjust the tune anyway.

 

I don't know how accurate your signature is but I don't know if a  FASS DDRP can keep up with the demand of a quad.. Might want to check that.. 

[Doubletrouble]

 I was wondering that myself. I don't want to have to do a ton of mods to support it right away. 

 As for my signature, it's accurate. Pretty much a stock truck with a fass ddrp.

 At some point I want to change the fuel system to at least move the ddrp near the tank and run larger line with a draw straw. 

[LorenS]

25 minutes ago, Silverwolf2691 said:

I don't know if a  FASS DDRP can keep up with the demand of a quad

So far it's worked well for me on factory reman injectors (~40-50k miles on them).  However, I have not tapped the wire or even turned the CANbus up high enough to cause any haze.  It's so much more responsive when I have the CANbus on, compared to not but right now am still playing with timing on the "super secret" mode to find the best timing addition for fuel mileage.  Next tank I may turn it back up to level 3 so I can enjoy myself for a few hundred miles, then go back to Economy mode.

19 minutes ago, Doubletrouble said:

I want to change the fuel system to at least move the ddrp near the tank and run larger line with a draw straw

That's what I've got.  I put a screw-on filter/screen ahead of the DDRP after removing the in-tank sock.  I run 3/8" fuel lines, except it's 1/2" from the filter to the VP44.  WOT still in the 14-15 PSI range and once I back off again it's back up around 18-20, measured at the VP44 inlet.

 

 

Edited March 22, 2021 by LorenS

[Doubletrouble]

 I am still reading and comparing the adrenaline and the XZT+ for what I use my truck for which is mainly a daily driver and occasionally towing a 7500lb camper ( later maybe a larger one). I'm thinking a bit more power and mpg mostly. Cost IS a factor. Now that being said, I was reading some of the canned tunes from quad that can be loaded on the box from the factory. 

 My question is, would the 2011 tune be best for what I'm thinking? Also, if I change injectors later to either rv275's or +50's will this tune still work properly? I have a screen shot of the tune below. Sorry for all the questions, just trying to get the most from a limited budget. I'd like to get gauges, injectors and the XZT box. If I go with the adrenaline I may have to sideline something else for a bit.

 Thank you all for the input and the patience.

 

Edited March 23, 2021 by Doubletrouble
Spelling

[hdpwipmonkey]

I bought the XZT and I got all the custom tunes on my Google drive and I was able to put on whatever tune I wanted.  It worked OK, but just OK.  It did give a noticeable boost in power but it was no where near what you will get from the Adrenaline.  Within a year I upgraded to the Adrenaline so now I have an XZT box just sitting in my garage... 

 

If you'd like to message me your address I will ship you out my XZT to try out and if you like it we can work out a deal.  If you dont like it, just ship it back.

 

I think I have either the 3000 or the beta tune on it currently...

Edited March 23, 2021 by hdpwipmonkey
added the current tune loaded

[Silverwolf2691]

@hdpwipmonkey, is the zxt the same as this adrenaline without the wire tap or is it something entirely different? 

[Me78569]

same as adrenaline without wiretap or ANY of the custom tuning.  

[hdpwipmonkey]

12 minutes ago, Silverwolf2691 said:

@hdpwipmonkey, is the zxt the same as this adrenaline without the wire tap or is it something entirely different? 

it is a canned tune that uses timing and canbus fueling.  Like Me said there is no custom tuning so if you change injectors to something other than stock you wont be able to tune out the smoke.   I think Quadzilla says it will provide 65 HP above stock.

[Dieselfuture]

50 minutes ago, Doubletrouble said:

Also, if I change injectors later to either rv275's or +50's will this tune still work properly?

Personally I would get the quad with v2 and Bluetooth for Android and not look back if you're keeping the truck for a long time. If you're staying with 40-50hp injectors you may get away with a canned tuner but always be limited on what you can do. 700 is not cheap but over say 10 years it's not bad, I had mine about that loong now. In the beginning I thought of switching to edge, but fortunately I kept it long enough and v2 came out, all the sudden it became the best tuner for vp trucks. Glad I was patient all these years.

[Doubletrouble]

 @hdpwipmonkey, thanks so much for offering a "test drive" with a XZT. I sent you a message with my address. That's awesome of you, I appreciate it greatly.