I've got a new to me 2000 2500 2WD Regular cab with NV4500 transmission and I believe the HX turbo (rubber wastegate tube). 190k miles and no idea how many miles on or even what injectors it has. I'm looking into upgrades to improve towing performance with a 14000lb trailer (20k GVW). I'm not looking to have huge HP or Torque, just to have a decently powerful, reliable and efficient rig. I definitely don't want to upgrade stuff and push it beyond its limits.

 

I don't currently have a EGT sensor. I know I need one.

 

I've already put on the GDP mechanical fuel pump so hopefully I won't have to worry about the VP44 dying for lack of pressure. Running 2 stroke with every fill-up.

 

I live in Colorado and have a 35% opacity limit on smoke coming out my tailpipe.

 

From what I've read I should just do what MoparMan himself has done and get 7 x 0.10 injectors and a Quad V2. I'm concerned about emissions if I have to remove the Quad to get it tested. I'd rather not tap the VP44. 

• SAC or VCO?
• How bad is the smoke on 7 x .10s without the Quad?
• If I clamp the waste gate (and maybe use a boost fooler) will that solve smoke issues of running without the Quad for opacity inspection?
• Do I definitely have to upgrade the clutch?
• Do I definitely have to get ARP headstuds installed? Can I put in headstuds without a new head gasket?

 

How well do RV275s work for towing without a chip? Would I still have to upgrade the clutch? Do RV275s need a boost elbow and fooler to get enough air?

 

Anybody do a death wobble steering stabilizer mod?

 

The articles section is great on this site but it sure would be cool if there was a "list of stuff that works together" page that collated some of the great info floating around in the forums.

 

Thanks for the help,

Justin

 

Thanks to all that posted suggestions here.

 

 I'm definitely someone that is inclined to follow the manufacturer recommendations. I figure they're smarter than me and have knowledge behind their engineering decisions. Obviously HP and torque can be bumped up quite a bit, but I'm always concerned about how that will effect reliability. I'd really like to know why the manufacturer didn't just increase the air and fuel to the engine to bump the specs. I'd think more power would lead to more sales.

 

Anyway, I'm leaning toward RV275s because they are a manufacturer approved option for the engine which seems safe. My question is how do I know that I'm getting the right fuel/air mix to the engine? The RV275 delivers more fuel, but does the ecm add more boost/air to burn that fuel? Do I need to adjust it? What data do I use to do that? Look at EGTs and smoke out the tailpipe? @NIsaacs, @Me78569, @dripley

 

I'm definitely interested in the Quad, but I'm not sure I want to mess with how the engine works. Obviously people have done some damn impressive upgrades to performance, but I'd definitely trade reliability for performance. I might just check out the Quad programmer info to see how it all works and what all it changes. $675 is a bit of cash for me but if I'm spending on a tuner it seems like the one with the most options.

 

It would be sweet to do unlimited upgrades but the cost seems to rapidly spiral as well.

Injectors: $400

Quad: $675

Clutch to hold INTENSE TORQUE: $800+

Turbo to feed the BEAST: $1000

Headstuds to contain the BEAST: $450

 

Maybe someday.

 

Side question: If the Quad can control fueling and air, can't it increase HP/torque without swapping injectors? Is it just a timing thing where it isn't possible to get enough fuel in at the right time with smaller injectors?

 

Thanks guys.

 

P.S. @IBMobile 4.10 will pull anything, right? What does the mystery switch do?

Edited June 26, 20195 yr by backcountrymountains
headstuds

The electronics will control everything based on sensor info. All you is plug and play with the EZ and the RV's. The RV's will push more fuel which will produce more exhaust and spin the turbo faster and push more air in the engine. All you have to do push the go pedal. You will need a boost elbow to help it. I bleeds pressure off of the waste gate to keep closed longer allowing higher boost pressures. There is no need for head studs with tthe EZ.

 

The Quad is different in that you can many parameters. It is a bit over my head but still might go that route one day

The only upgrade in power I’ve done to mine is RV275 and the quad XZT. and of course turnbuckle on the hy35 to keep the waist gate closed. The quad XZT is a canned tuner with three levels. Stock, economy (35 HP) and level three which adds 65 or 70 HP. Mine pretty much lives on level 2 except when I’m towing through the mountains I use level 3 on the hills. I usually tow between 6, and 14000 lbs. It holds its own but still you got to watch your temps and drive according to your gauges. With mods like mine I don’t believe any need for head studs and since  you are running a gear box, nothing more than a heavy duty clutch if and when your stock clutch where’s out, Do your research and shopping when it comes to clutches a lot can be had for way less than you think.

 

With that said, I would have stepped it up a notch and went with bigger injectors and maybe a quad adrenaline but with my 47re auto I have to take it easy, but the stock drivetrain should be able to hold a little above 300 horse without additional mods .

 

 

Edited June 26, 20195 yr by 01cummins4ever

For towing

 

Stage 1

Quadzilla Adrenaline, buy the fuel pressure sensor add on. All gauges, custom tunes and more power than Timing box and 75HP injectors that is easily adjustable.

Boost Elbow

(assuming lift pump is already done)

 

If you want more power

 

Stage 2 (all of the above +)

 100-150HP injectors

Clutch to hold extra power (Valiar Organic HD single 400-450HP)  (DD Valair Organic 550HP)

2wd low kit (allows 2wd Low by locking out front wheel power in 2WLO if you have 4wd to crawl back at 1.5mph instead of clutch in / ou tto stay under 5mph)

better headlights https://www.dieselautopower.com/standard-to-sport-edition-headlight-conversion-9402spchl

Turbo (57/65/12 or 14 SXE turgo (good to 450HP)  

or... do compound turbos with head studs and valve springs (about $650) (kit $1300, turbo s464/83/1.10AR $650) support 500-550HP and spool super fast,  and get 60psi, and sustained temps of about 1150 when loaded going up hill.

 

I just recently got a 9k lb fleetwood trailer towed it back home about 150miles, truck is 98.5 47re bone stock except BHAF and a Fass fuel transfer pump but not a big one just the stock replacement, truck pulled it fine.... slow but fine no bother as I drive it slow anyway, once home I had to sort out a light plug on the truck as trailer had a 24N socket which here is large truck stuff, while fitting all this at the back of the truck  I spotted the manufacturers tag still just about attached to the tow hitch which said 6klbs ooppps and a 6k ball mount,  got a heavy duty ball mount from rockauto but the hitch was £147 with £877 to ship it so spent some time welding steel onto the one I had and it will now do the job, one thing I did notice was that rust had weakened it quite a bit so It will get 2 coats of Cat black tomorrow which is on top of rust eater and etch primer and new steel.

Motto is check the stupid bits first, no good making 500hp and 19003449289lbsft of torque if the towed bit rips the hitch off at 70mph in the fast lane

2 hours ago, dieselautopower said:

For towing

 

Stage 1

Quadzilla Adrenaline, buy the fuel pressure sensor add on. All gauges, custom tunes and more power than Timing box and 75HP injectors that is easily adjustable.

Boost Elbow

(assuming lift pump is already done)

 

If you want more power

 

Stage 2 (all of the above +)

 100-150HP injectors

Clutch to hold extra power (Valiar Organic HD single 400-450HP)  (DD Valair Organic 550HP)

2wd low kit (allows 2wd Low by locking out front wheel power in 2WLO if you have 4wd to crawl back at 1.5mph instead of clutch in / ou tto stay under 5mph)

better headlights https://www.dieselautopower.com/standard-to-sport-edition-headlight-conversion-9402spchl

Turbo (57/65/12 or 14 SXE turgo (good to 450HP)  

or... do compound turbos with head studs and valve springs (about $650) (kit $1300, turbo s464/83/1.10AR $650) support 500-550HP and spool super fast,  and get 60psi, and sustained temps of about 1150 when loaded going up hill.

 

I am up for this. Do y'all  do small business loans also?

6 hours ago, backcountrymountains said:

 

 

It would be sweet to do unlimited upgrades but the cost seems to rapidly spiral as well.

Injectors: $400

Quad: $675

Clutch to hold INTENSE TORQUE: $800+

Turbo to feed the BEAST: $1000

Headstuds to contain the BEAST: $450

 

 

And don't forget good braking to stop the beast,   exhaust brake $1000.+  

 

3 minutes ago, dripley said:

I am up for this. Do y'all  do small business loans also?

at least you only have to cry once.

 

or in my case maybe twice when the wife finds out   

6 minutes ago, 01cummins4ever said:

at least you only have to cry once.

 

or in my case maybe twice when the wife finds out    

If I tell the wife about stage 2 purchase, you are all invited to the wake. Mine that is.

It's only taken me 17 years to get that far... 

• Quadzilla
• +150 HP VCO Injectors (7 x 0.010 @ 320 bar)
• 425 ARP head studs
• Exhaust brake
• 4" Exhaust 
• South Bend Clutch Con OFE
• HX35/40 Hybrid Turbo (60/60/12)

Then to get off the phone with @dieselautopower and he's trying to sell me twins.  Dreaming a bit, but I know I'm way out on limb first I gotta pay the hospital bills first. 

 

1 hour ago, dripley said:

If I tell the wife about stage 2 purchase, you are all invited to the wake.

 

You can have @JAG1 spot under the the tree in my yard. I can supply 120V 15A power for ya... 

Edited June 27, 20195 yr by Mopar1973Man

7 hours ago, backcountrymountains said:

4.10 will pull anything, right?

Lots of pulling power but the trade off is higher RPMs when cruising at highway speeds; about 1800 RPMs at 60.MPH.

 

7 hours ago, backcountrymountains said:

What does the mystery switch do?

You won't need a mystery switch.  the switch is for automatic transmissions.   It locks up the torque convertor for direct drive from engine to transmission, something like a clutch disk on your stick shift.  

2 minutes ago, IBMobile said:

Lots of pulling power but the trade off is higher RPMs when cruising at highway speeds; about 1800 RPMs at 60.MPH.

 

Or 3.55 gears and drop to 245/75 R16 the other stock tire size and be the same 60 MPH at 1,800 RPM's or 66 MPH at 2,000 RPM perfect.

 

1 hour ago, Mopar1973Man said:

You can have @JAG1 spot under the the tree in my yard. I can supply 120V 15A power for ya... 

That miht be far enough away. 

18 hours ago, NIsaacs said:

 

To prevent what? If I did that on mine, that would be 10 times (300k) Even spark plugs go 100k miles now. That would be every 3 months on most busy hot shot trucks, not to mention all the big trucks, ag equipment, construction and stationary equipment. Injectors are not that fragile.... 

 

Long story short. I have a Smarty with a built auto and 100HP injectors. Anyways, after a dooooshbag smoked out a congressman's Honda car with his ford, the state has gone nazi on all diesel pickups. As a result, I live in a state that loves to SNAP test people. They look for soot on the back corner, or a puff of smoke and they will pull you over and nail you on the side of the road.

 

Anyways, after 5 years and 33,000 miles i started battling serious smoke/lag issues with my dodge. And after dozens of debates and circles with programmers/elbows etc I stumbled across a video from when I first installed my 100's from DAP. Well on the video I had the truck on SW7 and it was fairly smoke free. Well I called Mike and told him about the video, and that started a "I wonder if your pop pressure/injectors sticking/etc discussion. Well that lead to a discussion about pulling the injectors while I had it down for routine maintenance(takes me about 3 days to do). Well I called DAP and overnight-ed my injectors and all of them had finally settled down to 280-286BAR. which is below the BOSCH minimum of 293BAR. Armed with this information Mike told me about a thread where Nick had started talking about the effects of pop pressure on truck performance. After much debate I decided to get them popped to 322BAR. ( contacted a dozen people on different forums who had been running higher pop pressures and found that 330 to be the crossover line, but I took 8BAR off and settled for 322BAR. I put them back into the truck and I have the cleanest burning Smarty powered dodge. I've passed several SNAP tests before i downed the truck for major maintenance work.

 

For me the change between 280BAR and 322BAR are night and day. my truck idles very smooth, i gained mpg, the turbo lights very fast now, and to top it off there is very little to no smoke on my Smarty(which has been universally agreed-ed is a smoke box)

With the assumption that the truck went from 300BAR to 280 BAR in 33,000 miles, I believe that it will take about 60,000 miles for my current set to drop back to the 280BAR again. But raising the pop pressure above 310BAR you run the risk of it not starting or running correctly, There is a big grey zone here. Some have gone up as high as 360BAR without issue.  But by raising my pop pressure 42BAR I got back about 4 degrees of timing back, Which means that when the Smarty locks the timing at 18.02* the mechanical offset is a retarded 4*. Which is why my truck is now very clean and street-able.
 

15 hours ago, Evan said:

I to am not going to be popping every  30k KISS. I'll replace if when I find a reason to. Have 6 or 8 years on my 7x09 injectors

 

<See my comment above>

In your case with your smarty thread I think you would fall into the low pop pressure category. You can mechanically advance the timing with the pop pressure and get better timing with the Smarty to burn clean and give you much better response. My truck runs like a raped ape with SW5, TM3 T4 D3. I can get a 25,000lbs 5th wheel up and running with virtually no smoke, I can pass trucks on the northeast extension with no issues and she pulls hard. Night and day difference to my old 280 BAR injectors.

 

 

15 hours ago, NIsaacs said:

To do this would require your rig to be down for a week, or having a spare set of injectors. Do you really think this is going to happen? It is not a 15 minute job....depending on the make and model it can be a serious undertaking. What about warranty issues messing with a new rig? It is okay if you want to do this but to recommend it?? What does Cummins, Mopar, Bosch or even DAP say? What about all the other makes and models of diesels? If this practice pertains to a second gen. 24 valve, it should pertain to all. Injectors are pretty much the same.  

 

Well first this here is that this only effects mechanical injectors. Common Rail Injectors don't have these issues. But most people including myself don't realize or recognize the signs of low pop pressure. Even so most people don't bother to pop their injectors till its way to late, and the injectors are in the 260 range. The questions to be asked in the think-tanks here isn't how long in miles or time, but engine use. When we start adding programmers and such to these engines anything that Cummins/BOSCH etc specify goes out the window.

How many trucks buy larger injectors and hold them over that period span before replacing them. I've spoke to several injector shops and they have all said that the average turnover is high for injectors. They have also said that a 10BAR drop is normal in the first 20,000 miles. But most also drop pop pressure to compensate for the added duration, so that the ending of the injection period is the same as the end of a smaller stock injector. Even so the effects of pop pressure on smaller injectors like 60's or 75hp are also proportional to the size. Popping 75's to 320BAR will pose bigger issues then popping 100HP injectors for example.

Besides if time is an issue could just have them send you a set of new 100's and sent your old ones off, and your back up and running in 4 hours.
 

 

Thanks pepsi, for explaining your experience with your truck, your needs and why (location). What it amounts to is you need a custom set of injectors, not your normal run of the mill offerings from multiple vendors.

 

Pulling your injectors at 33k miles fit your wants and needs and you were fine with that. However, this is not going to happen for most owners. Also, rebuilt high hp injectors are not all created equal, some are junk right out of the box. When I need new ones I will go with another set of new Bosch 275's. Then I will run them another 300-400k miles and never pull the valve cover

 

Again, thank you for not getting upset because I questioned some ones policy/suggestion. 

14 hours ago, dripley said:

I am up for this. Do y'all  do small business loans also?

Not directly...

 

But we are subsidizing 0% for 12 months with AFFIRM, or if you are paying with check/money order we can often include a cash discount of 2% (not a lot, but if its a big ticket it can make sense.... credit cards charge fees and I would rather discount those fees back to the customer where allowed by the MFG map pricing policies.)

On ‎6‎/‎26‎/‎2019 at 9:58 AM, backcountrymountains said:

 

Anyway, I'm leaning toward RV275s because they are a manufacturer approved option for the engine which seems safe. My question is how do I know that I'm getting the right fuel/air mix to the engine? The RV275 delivers more fuel, but does the ecm add more boost/air to burn that fuel? Do I need to adjust it? What data do I use to do that? Look at EGTs and smoke out the tailpipe? @NIsaacs, @Me78569, @dripley

 

 

 

If all you do are injectors (no EZ) you will need a boost fooler and boost elbow, minimum. There is a used boost fooler on this site in the classifieds. 

18 hours ago, pepsi71ocean said:

 

, the state has gone nazi on all diesel pickups. As a result, I live in a state that loves to SNAP test people. They look for soot on the back corner, or a puff of smoke and they will pull you over and nail you on the side of the road.

 

 

Pepsi, are you talking NJ or PA?

18 hours ago, NIsaacs said:

Thanks pepsi, for explaining your experience with your truck, your needs and why (location). What it amounts to is you need a custom set of injectors, not your normal run of the mill offerings from multiple vendors.

 

Pulling your injectors at 33k miles fit your wants and needs and you were fine with that. However, this is not going to happen for most owners. Also, rebuilt high hp injectors are not all created equal, some are junk right out of the box. When I need new ones I will go with another set of new Bosch 275's. Then I will run them another 300-400k miles and never pull the valve cover

 

Again, thank you for not getting upset because I questioned some ones policy/suggestion. 

 

I don't plan to pull them at another 33,000 miles, but I may just to compare the pop pressures. But as long as the truck continues to be smoke free I won't be to concerned. As it stands I'm writing an article about the long term effects of pop pressure on injectors, and I'm running a long term study for increased pop pressure. and so far I've been very happy with the results.

Oh I don't get upset, Its easy in a non emissions state to not care, but in this case I try to avoid the police. But the instant spool up is worse then a cheetah on cocaine, this thing spools like a chainsaw. haha

 

4 hours ago, dave110 said:

Pepsi, are you talking NJ or PA?

 

NJ, Its become a **** show here with cops cracking down on smoke. And it used to just be only in certain parts its becoming more open. I was driving past a check-point today (in the other direction) and they had 3 diesel pickups pulled in and other cars, and the diesels were on the emissions testing area in the parking lot.

If your from another state and just passing through NJ they can pull you over for a smoke test?  That doesn't seam right that they can impose there state regulations on an out of state vehicle.  What happened to interstate transportation with reciprocity.  .  

Maybe at tax time I'll see if ducky fuel injection can pop some 7x10s at 325 or so.