Filling oil filter when changing oil?

[Mopar1973Man]

Just gotta fill that question I'm sure someone would ask it.

[keithb7]

Isn't oil is engineered to keep the internal parts of your engine lubricated during cold starts and dry filters when they are changed?These are short time frames while the engine is starting, or filling up the empty filter.  The small film of oil left on internal engine parts does not drip off bearings, out of spray tubes, nor internal oil passages. The oil remains in several areas including the galleries, and the oil gear-pump. I'd go dry and not worry about it. If you want, yes go ahead and pre-fill the filter. Just know that if anything drops in there, not good. If you are not careful a tiny piece of the silver foil seal on the jug could drop in there. Or small plastic little pieces of plastic from the oil jug manufacturing process. This could destroy your engine if if gets into a oil gallery or spray tube in your engine.

[AH64ID]

13 minutes ago, keithb7 said:

Isn't oil is engineered to keep the internal parts of your engine lubricated during cold starts and dry filters when they are changed?These are short time frames while the engine is starting, or filling up the empty filter.  The small film of oil left on internal engine parts does not drip off bearings, out of spray tubes, nor internal oil passages. The oil remains in several areas including the galleries, and the oil gear-pump. I'd go dry and not worry about it. If you want, yes go ahead and pre-fill the filter. Just know that if anything drops in there, not good. If you are not careful a tiny piece of the silver foil seal on the jug could drop in there. Or small plastic little pieces of plastic from the oil jug manufacturing process. This could destroy your engine if if gets into a oil gallery or spray tube in your engine.

 

It very much is designed to stay on the surfaces of bearings, gears, etc. If it didn't the engines wouldn't last nearly as long. 

 

 

[JAG1]

I think about sudden oil pressure against the filter element with an empty filter. If you pre fill a filter, at least it has some buffer or support not blowing out with oil on both sides of the element. I don't know if this is a valid thought. I did loose about 7 qts of oil in a matter of seconds on the driveway when I unknowingly tightened the oil filter against one extra filter gasket stuck to the filter base.

Edited September 26, 2018 by JAG1

[AH64ID]

6 minutes ago, JAG1 said:

I think about sudden oil pressure against the filter element with an empty filter. 

 

But is that really any different than any start after sitting overnight where the filter is already only ±1/2 full? 

[JAG1]

I'm not sure about the whole thought. I know when I pull my filters after sitting all night they are always nearly full or down only an inch or so. It's the turbo bearings I worry about too that need oil soon perhaps.

Edited September 26, 2018 by JAG1

[Mopar1973Man]

I remember when the 2nd Gen came out it was sure a worry about oiling before startup that there was electric pump kits that you could toggle on and pump up oil pressure before you even started the truck. As time went on that whole thought of pre-lube went out the window being that trucks were going 1 million miles without the pre-lube pump. 

[AH64ID]

Just now, Mopar1973Man said:

I remember when the 2nd Gen came out it was sure a worry about oiling before startup that there was electric pump kits that you could toggle on and pump up oil pressure before you even started the truck. As time went on that whole thought of pre-lube went out the window being that trucks were going 1 million miles without the pre-lube pump. 

 

Oil has also come a long ways in 20 years, and does a much better job clinging after shutdown. 

[Sycostang67]

27 minutes ago, JAG1 said:

I think about sudden oil pressure against the filter element with an empty filter. If you pre fill a filter, at least it has some buffer or support not blowing out with oil on both sides of the element. I don't know if this is a valid thought. I did loose about 7 qts of oil in a matter of seconds on the driveway when I unknowingly tightened the oil filter against one extra filter gasket stuck to the filter base.

 

I accidentally started my truck with one of the filter head ports open.  That was a geyser for sure, didn't get to celebrate like Jed Clampett though, just went into panic mode trying to shut it down. 

[AH64ID]

24 minutes ago, JAG1 said:

I'm not sure about the whole thought. I know when I pull my filters after sitting all night they are always nearly full or down only an inch or so. It's the turbo bearings I worry about too that need oil soon perhaps.

 

If I let mine sit overnight the filters are generally no more than 1/2 full. 

[JAG1]

I'll have to check that out. I mostly remember mine usually full enough to have to be careful how much I tilt the filter getting it out. 

[Sycostang67]

Mine is always full to the bottom of the threads.  Speaking of oil changes, I know what I need to do this afternoon. 

[LiveOak]

I have been pre-filling oil filters on every engine I own for almost 45 years.  Never had a problem.  Below is what the 2002 Dodge Ram FSM says about this:

 

Quote

OIL FILTER
REMOVAL
(1) Clean the area around the oil filter head.
Remove the filter using a 90-95 mm filter wrench.
(2) Clean the gasket surface of the filter head. The
filter canister O-Ring seal can stick on the filter
head. Make sure it is removed.
INSTALLATION
(1) Fill the oil filter element with clean oil before
installation. Use the same type oil that will be used
in the engine.
(2) Apply a light film of lubricating oil to the sealing
surface before installing the filter.
CAUTION: Mechanical over-tightening may distort
the threads or damage the filter element seal.
(3) Install the filter until it contacts the sealing
surface of the oil filter adapter. Tighten filter an
additional ½ turn.

 

I understand the comments about unfiltered oil.  In fact I have found new filters with foreign material in the filter and what appeared to be adheasive.  I either removed it or discarded the filter.  I will continue to follow what the factory maintenance manual says.  

[Hobinator1]

12 hours ago, dripley said:

Though I do remember a member posting a picture of some crud sitting in the bottom of a new one gallon jug of oil. I have been looking ever since and not seen that personally.

This was very likely the additive that had fallen out of the oil. If you ever do see this, pour a little more oil in from another jug, shake it up good and then pour it into your engine and or transmission depending on what your filling. This crud is the stuff you WANT on the inside, without it you are playing with fire. Base stock oil used to make engine oil and transmission oil is very pure and additive free. This is good for a base, but terrible against wear and tear inside an internal combustion engine, or a transmission. Without the additives that are blended into every engine oil and transmission oil on the market today, the oil change intervals would have to be hundreds of miles instead of the thousands that we currently see. Always shake your oil before hand and you will avoid this possible problem. It is inevitable that the additives will fall out over time. This is simply because some of the additives are never actually solubilized in the oil. They are a second phase liquid that kind of floats around and when rejoined with enough of there like counterparts, they become too heavy and just drop to the bottom. Inside your engine and transmission this never happens because you have gear pumps, vane pumps, all kinds of shearing devices that keep the oil well mixed. Moral of the story, always shake your oil bottles no matter what. As for prefilling or not prefilling your oil filter, in my opinion it is very much up to the individual and what makes them feel the most warm and fuzzy inside.  

[AH64ID]

2 hours ago, JAG1 said:

I'll have to check that out. I mostly remember mine usually full enough to have to be careful how much I tilt the filter getting it out. 

 

It just depends on how long it’s been shut down for me. If I let it sit for 24 hours it’s 1/2 way, which is what I normally do these days for a change. 

[sooxies]

 

I like watching this gentleman's videos from time to time.

 

...and Cummins interestingly states in their FSM for the ISB:

Edited September 26, 2018 by sooxies

[Dieselfuture]

7 hours ago, Mopar1973Man said:

Just gotta fill that question I'm sure someone would ask it.

I stayed quiet this time boy did I want to put in my 

3 hours ago, Hobinator1 said:

This crud is the stuff you WANT on the inside, without it you are playing with fire.

Not disagreeing it may be an additive to oil, but wouldn't a 2mic bypass filter remove that anyway, especially dirty filter, since dirty filters remove more debris. 

 

@Mopar1973Man  no problem 

[dripley]

4 hours ago, Hobinator1 said:

This crud is the stuff you WANT on the inside, without it you are playing with fire.

The crud i remember in the picture appeared to be particles of something in the near size of a small grain sand, maybe a couple dozen darkish brown in color. They appeared solid, not sure you could have shaken them and dissolved them back into the oil. But since it was a picture I have no idea of their consistancy.

[Hobinator1]

49 minutes ago, Dieselfuture said:

Not disagreeing it may be an additive to oil, but wouldn't a 2mic bypass filter remove that anyway, especially dirty filter, since dirty filters remove more debris

That is a fantastic question. When you get into micron levels of filtration things start getting a little more complicated. You could have a 2 mic nominal filter with and absolute rating of 10. Meaning that it will catch some stuff down at the 2 micron level but all stuff over 10 microns. That is obviously dependent on the rating of the exact filter you are speaking about. These ratings can vary per filter application per manufacturer and even internally a filter can have two different mic levels of media in it (one main and one bypass to prevent 100% plugging). Although, there are not a tremendous amount of companies who make the media inside different filters there are tons of different distributors of the finished filter product so you really have to dig to find out what is inside them sometimes. You are also very correct in saying that a dirty filter catches more debris simply because the more clogged it gets the smaller the pores get and the less debris that can go through it. On the part of what I was saying earlier is that some additives are more soluble than others. When they are very well mixed into the fluid they are at a very small micron level therefore allowing them to get to surface areas and not get caught up in filters ect. Over extended amounts of time where an oil has sat on a shelf or in a barrel in some warehouse undisturbed these additives will congregate together and fall out, but one pass through the oil pump, or the filter in some cases with a little heat will actually shear them right back into solution. That is why if you were to see stuff on the bottom of an empty oil jug, try and get it into the engine/trans to get it sheared back in to the bulk fluid.   

[dripley]

1 hour ago, Dieselfuture said:

I stayed quiet this time boy did I want to put in my 

How many holes did you bite in your tongue while you restrained yourself?