The Future of Trucks

[Mopar1973Man]

13 hours ago, AH64ID said:

https://www.plugshare.com

 

LOL... I got a huge chuckle about the plug share link. None of those places are outfitted with proper charging station period. Like the Riverside RV park. That is a full RV park right now there is no way to reach a plug if you wanted. Just came back from Lewiston and seen they are full.

 

Like Canyon Pines near me is a RV park but they are full right now with storage of RV's. No way to reach a plug if you wanted. 

 

Hartland Inn in New Meadows does not have any charging station. It's a motel. I've driven past there just other day. 

 

Grangeville again I know exactly where that Motel 8 is but never seen any charging station. Right along the highway. I just past that 2 days ago heading to Lewiston.

 

Shore Lodge in McCall is a possible spot but never checked on it. 

 

I'm going to check on my local places to confirm.

 

Now the listing in Ontario, OR is correct there is a charging station. Still a 2.5 hour drive to get to. I watch that being build every day I took MoparMom to dialysis. I know exact where both are. 

[Doubletrouble]

 There is a Meijer store on the north side of Toledo, ohio that has 6-8 charging stations for electric cars.

 I believe there are probably more electrics around here though since it's mostly flat land in this area. In hilly mountainous regions I can't see them working out well.

[AH64ID]

53 minutes ago, Mopar1973Man said:

 

LOL... I got a huge chuckle about the plug share link. None of those places are outfitted with proper charging station period. Like the Riverside RV park. That is a full RV park right now there is no way to reach a plug if you wanted. Just came back from Lewiston and seen they are full.

 

Like Canyon Pines near me is a RV park but they are full right now with storage of RV's. No way to reach a plug if you wanted. 

 

Hartland Inn in New Meadows does not have any charging station. It's a motel. I've driven past there just other day. 

 

Grangeville again I know exactly where that Motel 8 is but never seen any charging station. Right along the highway. I just past that 2 days ago heading to Lewiston.

 

Shore Lodge in McCall is a possible spot but never checked on it. 

 

I'm going to check on my local places to confirm.

 

Now the listing in Ontario, OR is correct there is a charging station. Still a 2.5 hour drive to get to. I watch that being build every day I took MoparMom to dialysis. I know exact where both are. 

You are far from the expert you think you are...yet you are so confident that you refuse to spend the 3 minutes required to educate yourself. 

 

There are even photos of the Tesla charger on the wall at Heartland Inn, and a car charging at the RV park... Same thing with the super 8 in grangeville. They are genuine Tesla chargers, period. 

 

Just because you haven’t seen it yourself does not mean it doesn’t exist, it seemly means you haven’t seen it. 
 

So the real chuckle is at your ignorant post. 

smh 

[That Guy]

On 12/23/2020 at 8:41 AM, Mopar1973Man said:

That's the stupid part everyone thinks electric vehicles are free. Someone is paying for that power either going to be a rise in taxes or just your home power bill. trust me when I'm sitting here its a mere +63*F in the house, +19*F outside, I'm running out of firewood. Yeah I know this month is going be a $200 plus a month just to keep warm, now toss in a massive battery for a vehicle, that draws power like my electric dryer or my heat pump. You can safely figure in just doubling my power bill. Regardless your still paying for the electricity some how. Power plant still emit CO2 into the air just as much as you drive your electric car around just emitted from the power plant not your car. Still not fixing the issues of reducing CO2 emission.

 

Still in all HP (fuel) to HP (electric) is going to require X amount of amp hours (electric) stored to travel. For mountain area like where I'm at just not effective. I'm now seeing electric cars once in awhile out run there charge and left stuck. Currently if you leave Boise there is NOTHING north to recharge a electric vehicle I know Ontario, OR has a few charging stations but nothing north of Boise. Lewiston ID I've not seen any charging stations as of yet unless they are hidden down a side street.

 

Kind of like when I was buying my truck there wasn't any diesel fuel available in my area but maybe one or two stations and expensive. Now with the amount of diesel vehicles diesel fuel is available just about every where. I almost opted for a 60 fuel tank where purchasing my 2002 Dodge. 

It's basically free compared to gas and diesel, and also the disproportionately high fuel tax 4 wheelers pay in relation to class 8 (a form of socialist subsidy to transport companies). 4 wheelers pay the same tax per gallon and yet the trucks cause exponentially more wear on the road. The numbers depends on exactly who you ask. Roughly speaking, class 8 causes >90% of damage to the roads. What's not up for dispute is that they pay for about 35% of the wear via taxes to keep the roads maintained. The cars like the Chevy Volt or Toyota Prius Prime that have enormous batteries for plug in charging while having a gas engine for range extension bring the equation equal to the amount of damage the car does to the road. The issues of road taxing is something is something that has yet to be addressed in most places and most places that have are a bit draconian.
 

On the generation standpoint, do not underestimate the economies of scale. Discharge of the car is near 100% efficient. Regenerative braking is about 80% depending on how intense the application and who you ask. The grid to your doors is between 87 and 97.8% efficient. The actual generation (heat generated to Watts at the output) is in the 30-70% (average of fuel consuming plants in the US is 45%) range while hydro and wind/solar only cost maintenance on the facility and initial cost. Plugging in at home costs about 30 cents on the dollar per distance traveled than to fill with petroleum, assuming about $2 a gallon gas that has been seen by many lately. Besides that, electrical utilities are regulated monopolies and most are for profit. Most make around 10%. Oil companies are not and are not above charging a premium for their product. Since energy companies can negotiate for lower fuel prices, whether it be bunker/natural gas/coal/other, they can get their price per unit cheaper than John Q. Using a Tesla charger is basically highway robbery compared to how much it cost them for the power.

 

 

 

To the point, it is cheaper to drive on large centrally generated electricity than on micro local generation. The only things to be addressed are the battery capacity and the charging. They are the same problem since charge rate is a function of capacity. 

 

My personal opinion...

The Musk truck is a tonka toy. It will be great for 90% of current truck owners who "need" a truck. The other 10% will need something actually built like a truck and not a ridgeline/avalanche/camino/sportrac.

 

Places like Cracker Barrel that cater almost exclusively to travelers are installing charging stations. I would be willing to buy a 350-400 mile range vehicle for as rarely as I drive 600+ miles in a sitting if it could charge to 80-90% in the hour or so I would be eating. 

Edited December 24, 2020 by That Guy

[That Guy]

As an addendum, fathers Prius Prime has a 8.8kwh battery. It provides about 25-30 miles (35 in my experience) of full electric before the engine comes on. It costs less than a dollar for a full charge hooked up over night. It's about 10c per kWh here. It will really recharge in a little over 4-5 hours on a 120v outlet, or ~1.8kWh*5=9kWh... 9*$0.108= $0.97 for a full charge.

 

I also once took it on a road trip in the mountains, specifically hwy 111 in Tennessee. Changed about 1500 feet in elevation 6 times. Up-down-up... destination, down-up-down...return.

 

Round trip was about 120 miles. I spent about $3. Lots of rolling hills inbetween. I used nearly all of the battery getting to and about 1/4 up the first mountain (Signal Mountain) where the engine started, recharged about 1/4 of the battery going down the other side with the engine off, Made it about 1/4 the way up the next hill before the engine came on again and then about 8 miles to my destination driving along the brow. That was nearly all at 70+mph. Burned about $0.75 in fuel getting there, about $1.25 on the way back. 

 

 

My older prius still has the factory brakes at 299570 miles. They have about half their life left. Regen braking is amazing. When when the battery is full, It starts spinning the engine with no fuel all the way to redline(if need be) to for engine braking. The battery in mine is a NiMh and is original to the car. In order to prolong the life of the battery, the charging circuitry will not let the battery fall below ~22%(engine runs to charge) SOC or above 78.2% (regen cuts off) normally keeping it between 25-68%. I could not tell you how much the battery has lost in cycles, but I will say that the car takes full advantage of micro cycling to make sure the battery will age out before cycling out. Quoted full electric range on my car is 1.2 miles, I can still get about 1 mile from a dead stop accelerating to and holding 30 on flat ground. 

 

Disclaimer, I am a rather spirited driver who has found that the Prius will in fact do a decent burnout. I tend to never be passed and consistently either keep up with traffic (15-20 over the limit) and have been known to pass at 85+. I went down the indian nation turnpike in Oklahoma and set cruise on 90. I still averaged 31mpg over the time I was on the turnpike. From what I have seens, most Prius drivers are not exactly quick. 

 

It ain't no Cummins, and won't win many races, but it is very cheap and fairly comfortable. 

Edited December 25, 2020 by That Guy

[Dieselfuture]

Wife got a hybrid rav4 very similar to what you described @That Guy we took it on the trip to yellowstone this summer and it did well in all cases. Driving through the park we got an average of 45 mph, I was actually impressed. 

[Me78569]

I think the time is coming to add an EV into the mix.  

 

https://www.ford.com/trucks/f150/f150-lightning/2022/

 

Key word, Add, not replace.  

 

if the tax credit comes in at $7500 for the base f150 electric it will be cheaper than the gas counterpart.   it should come in right around 32k after the tax break for the base model.

 

Boxes it checks for me

1. price point

2. 4wd and safe in all 4 seasons.

3. range good enough to make it to the "Big city" and back on a single charge

4. bed to pickup wood or bulky stuff

5. Cheaper to charge than pay for gas*

6. it can't be ugly as sin like the cyber truck

7. it has to be made by one of the big companies, I don't want a one off startup I want something made by someone who knows how to make a car.

 

 

So what roll will this EV take over?   DD duty for the wife to and from work and bi-weekly trips to get groceries.   The wife currently drives the 3500 daily and we are putting in  ~1000 miles a month on it.  at 18 mpg that's 55 gallons of fuel at ~3.20 right now is $180 a month in fuel.

 

we pay .126 per kwh and the ford ev has a ~150 kwh battery.  at 230 miles per charge it will cost ~$20 to charge and roughly 4 charges a month = $80 or $100 savings per month.  

 

I know $100 a month is not enough to cover the payment on the truck, but there is a 2nd reason to move her to an EV,   wear and tear on the cummins.  I don't forsee selling the 3500 in the near future, but I don't enjoy racking up miles to and from work,  The emissions on the truck want to be worked and the type of driving we are typically doing don't work the truck.

 

Long term I am trying to plan a way to generate power from the river in front of our house.  It would be really cool to charge the ev using the river.

 

 

What the EV will not do is tow anything, that is not a good fit for the platform.

 

 

 

 

[dripley]

It will be interesting to see how this works out. The ev's are interesting for the around town stuff but my wife would never remeber to plug it in. 

As far as miles on my truck that ceased to be issue a good while back. Now it seems to be just how many I can rack up before my left leg gets tired.

[Dieselfuture]

We're definitely moving to another talk with vehicles, all I can say is how much does it cost to repair and who can do it. I see problems in long run at this point, but who knows what future brings. 

[JAG1]

I am a contrarian, wont be getting one till everyone else reveals all the problems/ ramifications associated with ownership and what I think will be a boat load of problems. IBMobile and me will be the last and most obsolete diesel die hards on the planet. You can bet on it and we be called obsolete by then too.

Edited May 21, 2021 by JAG1

[Blueox01]

Not to mention the taxpayer funded "tax credit" you'd be using!

[Me78569]

I pay taxes lol just trying to get some of that back.

 

might be something I try to lease as well.  If it doesn't work out I am not tied to it.  

[Mopar1973Man]

Good point... 

[dripley]

One thing I don't like about the EV's is they don't have to pay any road taxes, but that will change when they catch on.  After all we  all use the same roads. Got to maintain them.

[Mopar1973Man]

Still ask who is paying for the power? 

[Me78569]

39 minutes ago, dripley said:

One thing I don't like about the EV's is they don't have to pay any road taxes, but that will change when they catch on.  After all we  all use the same roads. Got to maintain them.

that will have to change.   I read of a couple states putting in a flat rate tax on ev per year.   It's a start.   

 

 

[Mopar1973Man]

Taxes should be based on the kilowatts used and road miles driven personally. That way the kilowatts are paid for and the road taxes to maintain roads.

[Blueox01]

17 hours ago, Me78569 said:

I pay taxes lol just trying to get some of that back.

 

might be something I try to lease as well.  If it doesn't work out I am not tied to it.  

Imagine how many Tesla's your tax dollars have helped sell, for the richest man in the world!

[Me78569]

Yep, and I vote against the law makers that support that.  

[dripley]

41 minutes ago, Blueox01 said:

Imagine how many Tesla's your tax dollars have helped sell, for the richest man in the world!

You do have valid p0int but the tax breaks have given to almost anyone selling EV's and hybrids. Not the first tax brake handed out by the gov to help sell things. I built a Love's truck stop and c store 2 years or so back.  One of the rebates they got at the time was for selling diesel with bio diesel blended. That subsidy for the year I was there was $110 million dollars. That one fuel seller. How many others and how much they get is beyond me. Gov subsidies are a dime a dozen across the spectrum of our economy.  I personally believe that it has helped newer technologies get to the benefit of the public. Is it all worth it is matter personal opinion I guess. Some subsidies a bull crap for sure.  And the rate we are just throwing money at everything at the moment angers me to no end.

6 hours ago, Mopar1973Man said:

Still ask who is paying for the power? 

That has blown my mind when I see free charging stations and different places. I do believe change in the near future. I galls me to think when I buy groceries somewhere that has those charging stations that I am helping pay for their fuel. Need to find a grocery store that gives away a couple gallons of diesel on each visit to even the score. No success yet.