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Looking for input, I'm pretty much stock, but hoping to add Quad Adrenaline this winter. I do have RV275's. I won't use wire tap, just Can tuning (or so I think) . The price difference is about $40 dollars, but Airdog states that the difference between the 2 pumps is the rpm of the motor (2000 for 100, 3000 for 150). Will I see any benefit of running the 150 over the 100 with the mild mods I plan. I was thinking the lower RPM 100 might last longer than the higher rpm 150, but I know that engine longevity thinking may not apply to electric motor longevity reality. 

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After looking deeper into the install direction, it would seem the raptor 150 kit comes with bigger lines from the filter housing to the VP44 and from the Raptor pump to filter housing, whereas the raptor 100 kit only comes with bigger replacement lines from the pump to filter housing. To me this makes it the better deal, as long as the over capacity won't cause me any drive-ability issues, or reliability issues for the power level I am at.

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I’d go with the 150. If you ever do any more upgrades you’ll have the fuel to support it. While also keeping the electronics on the VP44 cool. I wish I had gone with the 150. Probably will upgrade mine soon. 

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@IBMobile I did see that, but only skimmed it. Sure seems to be a lot of Airdog and FASS pumps out there that are successful, but wondering if an aftermarket mechanical lift pump would be better in the long run. I see the fuel boss isn't currently available, but the Power Driven Diesel brand units are. 

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Posted (edited)

I was told that the Fuel Boss pump manufacture has closed up shop since the CCP virus out brake and don't know when or if it will open again.

Edited by JAG1
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I have a DTT Assassin mechanical pump from DAP,  it will suck a football down a garden hose, I use a Cat filter head and Cat 2 micron fuel filters, I do have a FP gauge but never look at it now, highest fuel temps towing my 5th is 120f at 1/2 tank

The kit from @dieselautopower was a good price but I already had the Cat filters, I'm just now removing the small steel return line from the head which cracked on our recent 2 week trip to North West UK, nothing to do with the pump it just fractured in a bracket at the side of the trans, if you go this route make sure you get 1/2" lines

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Posted (edited)
11 hours ago, IBMobile said:

I was told that the Fuel Boss pump manufacture has closed up shop since the CCP virus out brake and don't know when or if it will open again.

I wonder if they found a problem with their pumps and are thinking not to open up over the replacement cost potential.

 

I had a Raptor 100. After about 60,000 it was showing signs of weakness because I had to turn up the regulator a couple times to stay in range.

 

Now both my rigs have the 150's for a try. I think they run with less effort.

Edited by JAG1
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9 minutes ago, JAG1 said:

I wonder if they found a problem with their pumps and are thinking not to open up over the replacement cost potential.

 

I had a Raptor 100. After about 60,000 it was showing signs of weakness because I had to turn up the regulator a couple times to stay in range.

 

Now both my rigs have the 150's for a try. I think they run with less effort.

 

 

I agree, 66k miles and 4 years on my 100, just ordered the 150. My pressure drops at WOT too far (5-7) and high fuel temps.

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4 minutes ago, NIsaacs said:

 

 

I agree, 66k miles and 4 years on my 100, just ordered the 150. My pressure drops at WOT too far (5-7) and high fuel temps.

Same here, I noticed running uphill seemed like the 100 wasn't keeping up to the demand like it used to.

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I put a 100 on mine 7 years ago. I put a 3/8 in line suction screen before it(Donaldson #P550974) and increased my lines to the pump to 3/8. It has down well ever since with a pressure drop of 6 lb at WOT pulling hard. I am  stock with rv275 injectors. The suction screen is just an in line can, but I also use them on my 400 hp cat grader that sucks 9 gallons an hour.  Going overboard on huge $100 dollar suction filters is nuts. Just my opinion. My typical load hauling my 5r is 19,700 gcw.

Edited by oldbeek
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I've had 2 100's. The first one I bought new from the original owner that never installed it. After a while it developed a leak caused by one of the mounting holes being tapped too deep. I couldn't get warranty because I was not the original purchaser and the card was never sent in but they sold me a replacement at cost. I took the deal and fixed the old one for a spare in case I ever needed it. It's been collecting dust on the shelf for probably 8-9 years now...... never needed it. I've had zero issues with either one other than that and my PSI drop is well within spec.

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The 5/16 line banjo bolt at the pump has an area of .023 sq in.,, A 3/8 is .069 sq in. which is a 66% improvement in flow  restriction. All the 3/8 fittings and lines are larger yet. Just saying for a guy on a budget, with a stocker, 3/8 is big enough.

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2 minutes ago, oldbeek said:

The 5/16 line banjo bolt at the pump has an area of .023 sq in.,, A 3/8 is .069 sq in. which is a 66% improvement in flow  restriction. All the 3/8 fittings and lines are larger yet. Just saying for a guy on a budget, with a stocker, 3/8 is big enough.

 

A banjo bolt is one of the largest restrictions to flow. It's not only the orifice size, it is drastic change in direction. The standard coefficient for calculating the restriction of a banjo fitting is like 0.7..... where 1 would be no flow and 0 would be full unrestricted flow. 

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On 8/5/2020 at 10:22 AM, oldbeek said:

I put a 100 on mine 7 years ago. I put a 3/8 in line suction screen before it(Donaldson #P550974) and increased my lines to the pump to 3/8. It has down well ever since with a pressure drop of 6 lb at WOT pulling hard. I am  stock with rv275 injectors. The suction screen is just an in line can, but I also use them on my 400 hp cat grader that sucks 9 gallons an hour.  Going overboard on huge $100 dollar suction filters is nuts. Just my opinion. My typical load hauling my 5r is 19,700 gcw.

That isn't enough pressure at WOT. You need to stay above 14 to have the return fuel cooling that you need, esp. during hard pulls when the injection pump gets the hottest. Mopar1973Man calls this a slow death to the VP44.

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1 hour ago, LorenS said:

At WOT, I can't imagine you need the relief to be open. The fuel you're burning is still passing through the VP absorbing heat.

I guess that would depend on the route the fuel takes thru the VP.. Does it all pass thru the area of the computer for cooling and then to the injection pump and then return the excess fuel to the tank? Or does it go to the injection pump and then get returned by the computer on its way to the tank.? I dont know enough about how fuel routes thru the pump my self. 

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4 hours ago, LorenS said:

At WOT, I can't imagine you need the relief to be open. The fuel you're burning is still passing through the VP absorbing heat.

70% of the fuel should go back to tank at all times and WOT is where max heat is generated, I read the service manual yesterday on this very subject.

I had the return line off recently to replace it and put the tank end into the filler neck and ran the truck to see whats returning,  I have a really good flow back to tank and this is with a new overflow valve and the assassin geared low

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11 hours ago, LorenS said:

At WOT, I can't imagine you need the relief to be open. The fuel you're burning is still passing through the VP absorbing heat.

You cannot break MoparMans rules around here. No ones ever found out what happens when you do. MoparMan say 14 p.s.i. minimum pressure at WOT. So at idle you should be set at 19 to allow a drop of 5 when gettin' on it and that's if you have half inch line kit all the way.

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4 hours ago, JAG1 said:

You cannot break MoparMans rules around here. No ones ever found out what happens when you do. MoparMan say 14 p.s.i. minimum pressure at WOT. So at idle you should be set at 19 to allow a drop of 5 when gettin' on it and that's if you have half inch line kit all the way.

Well I sortoff are  :doh: as right now I'm at 5psi at idle on the low gearing for the assassin, 2 micron Cat filter with my gauge on the VP side, correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the stock filter 10 micron ??

I'm seeing a huge amount of volume going back to tank but only 5psi at idle, now if I clamp off the TEE return I get some serious psi at idle, open return line the volume back is considerable, I've changed the overflow which has a bypass anyway before the 15psi regulation thats built in, if I gear the pump up I'm all good but I'm thinking too much psi is just increasing the fuel temps for no reason, I do have a 5 micron Fleetguard filter on it's way to test.

I'm happier with huge flow rather than huge psi and my fuel temps are very low, we'll see when the 5 micron filter is fitted

and to clarify 5psi at idle and 25psi at 2k and I have checked for flow with the return placed in the filler neck to see whats happening

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Posted (edited)

Yes I know Wil.... flow and pressure are two important measures, that when you begin to restrict the flow pressure will increase, if measured before the restriction like a banjo bolt.. That's why it's important to pay attention to the amount that it drops at WOT. Additionally, the gauge designs available are perhaps more cost effective being made for measuring psi rather than flow. Not sure on that, but the overflow valve opens at a certain point represented by psi., 14 being the minimum required to keep it open for cooling.

Further more your non electric lift pump being that it's mechanical, will increase the required pressure (and flow) when needed, if the regulator is adjusted properly. I believe the regulator for your L/P is on the return line.

 

Unlike the electrical pumps that typically drop or lose pressure at WOT, yours will keep up with demand as RPM goes up.

 

I don't think I'M able to contribute much here.... just thinking out loud hoping I hit on something is all.

Edited by JAG1
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36 minutes ago, JAG1 said:

Yes I know Wil.... flow and pressure are two important measures, that when you begin to restrict the flow pressure will increase, if measured before the restriction like a banjo bolt.. That's why it's important to pay attention to the amount that it drops at WOT. Additionally, the gauge designs available are perhaps more cost effective being made for measuring psi rather than flow. Not sure on that, but the overflow valve opens at a certain point represented by psi., 14 being the minimum required to keep it open for cooling.

Further more your non electric lift pump being that it's mechanical, will increase the required pressure (and flow) when needed, if the regulator is adjusted properly. I believe the regulator for your L/P is on the return line.

 

Unlike the electrical pumps that typically drop or lose pressure at WOT, yours will keep up with demand as RPM goes up.

 

I don't think I'M able to contribute much here.... just thinking out loud hoping I hit on something is all.

Jag

If you take a look at the overflow valve there is a drilling in it that is always open, certainly on a 98.5, this with a mechanical pump at least sends a lot of fuel back to tank all the time, I'm pretty sure most of my excess fuel is returning to tank from the VP overflow whether it's through the small drilling at idle or close to idle or the actual 15psi relief, my pressure regulator is in a separate return line and that's what stops psi going above 25.

I was thinking depending on what the 5 micron filter does I may use the higher gearing for the pump which gets me around 12 to 15 psi at idle and drill the pilot relief in the overflow a tiny bit bigger doing this will mean nearly all excess fuel will be returned from the vp.

Just to recap IF the overflow is a genuine Bosch 467 445 003 it has a bleed orifice and does not need to see 14/15psi to flow fuel back to tank, if the lift pump is man enough there is plenty of flow BUT while looking for a overflow valve all in the USA I found some pictures show NO second small drilling, I just picked up a genuine Bosch valve  8 miles from home here in the UK

I will add DO NOT take this as true on another truck, I have spent time checking my truck and I am happy I'm getting good flow back

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Interesting  points Wil, however my day is running short so I have to read in depth when I get more time, Thank you for the report it's very interesting.

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